Bluedell

To a certain extent, yes. I think that there are times where you have to accept it. However, and without trying to speak for him, I don't think FS was posting as a "FFer". He was a guy who questioned CW the whole way along, even when CW was being lauded by a majority of FF, so I'm sure he'd be critical of them (and many on here) as well. While not disagreeing with the previous generalisation comments, there's also much to criticise FF about, for example in respect of the hysteria of Green's early days. It wasn't all posters but there were many that just jumped on the bandwagon being pushed by some at that point. I'm therefore not arguing that FF shouldn't be criticised but VB is much more than just an anti-FF site which it could come across as to casual observers.

It's not the fact that FF is referred to in derogatory terms. It's the fact that it seems as if it's constantly referred to. You have even admitted it was part of the basis of the site's assessment of Whyte. I understand the history but feel that it should be moving on from it now. None of the forums are perfect and deserve criticism at times, but the first response to criticism doesn't need to be "ah but FF....." However my post was meant constructively. Hopefully it's taken that way.

The game against QP really highlighted the problem with the formation. It just isn't working and needs to be changed. It's too easy for 2 central defenders to sit and mark jig as there is very little coming through to stretch the defence. As soon as Little came on and played beside Jig we got a goal. Perhaps Sandaz's injury limits Ally but he needs to get a formation that works in the third division and for the players that we have. We need someone with movement upfront. It was good to see Hemmings sitting in the director box which suggests that he may be back soon. It looks to me as if we would do far better going 4-4-2 and hopefully we will see McCulloch and Little starting upfront together.

That's funny, for some reason.

We have FF referenced when VBs are describing who they are, they are referenced when they are criticised and they are even used in their decision making about Whyte. The VBs do a lot of great work but they need to move away from this fixation they have of FF. They have done enogh to establish themselves as an influenctial group within our support. You don't get on with FF or the RST? Fine. Ignore them and get on with your own stuff. It diminishes what you do come up with by constantly referring to them. As for Whyte, there was no major reason for anyone to get overly worried by the Mark Daly programme. It was clearly done with someone with an agenda and had little evidence. It was the Daily Record's Ticketus article that should have had alarm bells ringing and was when everyone should have started considering what he was up to. There was enough prima facie evidence to suggest something was seriously wrong. However we all make mistakes and hopefully we learn from them and move on. Hopefully the VBs can move away from the FF references and just carry on with the good work that they do.

I think that the line is decency (although that's obviously difficult to define). In respect of most of your examples, they are probably OK. The one major one I'd have a problem wiith would be BNP. However if it's not racist then I guess I'd need to live with it. I guess I'd feel that some of your examples didn't do the club any credit, in the same way as Edge feels about some of ours. However I'm not sure that I have the right to dictate my views on others. There's a difference between what is socially unacceptable (eg racism) and what you disagree with on a personal level. For example, I'm a Scotland supporter, despite the anti-English songs that the tartan army sing (which admittedly are a lot less than they once were but they still exist). I don't feel I have the right to start dictating to them what they can and can't sing. I accept that the tartan army are football supporters and they sing things I don't agree with. It's just part of being a fan.

I'd argue that Gersnet is far from being representative of the attendance at Ibrox. Looking at the guys who went on my supporters bus, 100% would be of the same opinion as me. I've served on various supporters committees over the years and I'm not aware of anyone who think the same way as you, and that includes an SNP supporter. Likewise any friends or acquaintances. It's impossible for any of us to guage the accurate feeling in our suport but based on my own experience as above and going to games, home and away, domestic and Europe, I'd suggest that under 20% feel the way that you do.

Being anti-SNP or anti-independence is not extremism.

So should we bin any song that someone in the crowd doesn't like? So if someone doesn't like a particular song then it should not be sung? There's some Rangers related songs that I don't like. Should they be stopped as well? Why does everyone have to agree on everything? It seems that your attitude has divided the support as much as the songs that are being sung. Why would you willingly do that? :tongue: You are always going to get stuff that people don't like. Why not live with it, instead of being offended?

Glasgow underground from St Enochs (corner of Buchanan St and Argyle St) to Ibrox. Return is £2.60.

Whyte should get done for illegal trading, at least. Not sure that they will get Murray on anything.

http://www.gersnetonline.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?39968-So-which-Celtic-company-do-we-play-against

I'm sure you could join the group without sitting with them. Club deck? I thought you'd welcome a move to a more comfortable seat?

Correct. It's HMS 402 and not Pacific Shelf.

So why not follow your own advice and join the UBs and you can influence what songs they sing?

What obscene and offensive slogans did they chant?

There's more football singing now than there's arguably been in the last 30 years, so it's a strange time to make the decision. Why not last year? 5 years ago? 10 years ago?

It's strange that people who think that some non-footballing songs shouldn't be sung at Ibrox are in favour of Rangers fans getting involved with this non-footballing issue.

That's the relevant company. The pacific shelf one has never been the football club so the above blog is wrong, I'm afraid.

Why's that?

Can't say I've ever heard either being chanted in the stands at Ibrox. Not disputing what you've said, just what I've been aware of. The treatment by the police of the singing groups is definitely open to question. THey have been unduly harrassed at times and the police are open to a lot of criticism (intimidation of fans at Annan station most recently but there's plenty of other examples), and that's not defending then of the chants that you are accusing them of, but it does explain why they have an interest in the police. As for policitcs, I fail to see why you have to visit the Scottish Parliament to be able to express political opinion.

Disagree, Pete. I'd suggest that the vast majority of the crowd are right behind BF1.

I'd suggest that neither is acceptable and you're bringing yourself down to their level.

Genuine questions. Do the UBs sing 1312 or ACAB? I don't know the chant so apologies if it comes across as being thick. Is this sung frequently?

A couple of points on this: 1. If I was told the names they probably would mean nothing to me. 2. Even if the legal names are disclosed, it doesn't mean that they are actually the ones with the control. I know of a few examples whereby the beneficial owners of companies have no control. Due to this, I can't get too excited about not being given the information.