rbr

I'll comment more on this on Monday...

Well , any thoughts Frankie

I'm not really with you on this point. We need to have 3 U21 players on the bench anyway & today we had 4 on the bench, but I don't see that as any sort of pendulum swing when we had Mendes, Novo & Edu out through injury (no, I'm not forgetting Broadfoot), as well as Papac & Lafferty out through suspension.

sorry I actually didn't take that into account also I suppose having lafferty and papac suspended wouldn't have helped either , but when you add it all up that is it really a first team squad of 19 , todays 10 ( flecks still too young to be considered a full first team member IMHO ) plus Alexander , Thomson , Beasley ,Papac , Lafferty , Novo ,Edu ,Broadfoot and Mendes

Very few if any of the players that have left made any contribution at all to last season , Velicka waded in with a few important goals , Ferguson held down a position for a while without doing anything spectacular , Dailly was well Dailly , and that was about it , the rest Darcheville , Burke , Gow , Hemdani , Adam ,Graham Smith , Webster and Furman never featured, also for years we have all wanted youngsters to get a chance , however I have never seen the pendulum swing so far in the opposite direction so quickly ever , I mean today we had 4 under 21 players on the bench

Since January , if Darcheville and Burke are included we will have saved over �£6.9 million on wages per year and thats at a conservative estimate , add in the �£1.5 million in fees ( once the players slice is removed as none asked for transfers ) and that we will earn over �£17 million ( if Celtic get gubbed hopefully ) top line from the c/l alone , how bad can it really be , even when we were seriously in debt a few years ago we never saw such draconian cuts as we are witnessing now , all this on top of the club workers who seem to be facing constant threats to their jobs , sad sad times , the sooner the truth comes the better

Before I start just let me say this is totally without any foundation , it's just my own thoughts no sources or rumours behind it .

The way we have approached this year from Jan 1st till the present has been almost scatter gun like , any decent or at least any offer for any player seems to have been accepted whether to take players on loan or for transfer , the initial figure of removing �£4million from the wage bill has more than been reached along with getting around �£1.6 million ( once the players cut is removed as no one asked for a transfer ) for players in fees .

This has left me wondering why the desperation for this type of actions , we all agree last season though brilliant to win the league , was a disaster from the point of view of player recruitment , with the vast majority being brought in too late for europe and leaving us with far to big a squad , any sane fan would realise that there would need to be some sort of balancing act , and few would agree with the majority of players leaving in fact some would like a few more join the ranks of the departed .

However and this is where this season so far has been very strange , with so much riding yet again on the league it is very unlike Walter to go with such a thread bare squad , without bringing in any players , indeed Murray's lapdogs are now infact telling all that infact we need more players out the door before we can even get a bosman or a loan signing on board .

I can only hope that this is being done as part of a takeover deal , such as Portsmouth's where they are preparing the finances before the sheikh takes over , if not then what exactly are the figures on our finances going to read, possibly like a horror movie if barrybaldy is correct .

Never can the hopes of so many be laid at the feet of so few , god bless them I really hope they succeed ...

as usual the papers are way behind , this is old old news

they were the best of two very poor teams and having their midfield certainly wouldn't inspire me , especially having the strikers they have , the only thing that will save them is getting the greeks

Right guy's todays the day and we are about to set off , good news we are all fit and well and looking forward to it and so far have raised over �£10 000 of our �£20000 target .

bad news the weather is pish up North ad looks to stay that way , our kit hasn't arrived from poland ( they got the dates mixed up seemingly ),and we have an 8 hour drive to get started .

Never mind it has to be done , if any one would like to support us in this charitable event , please click the link and give what ever you can ,I realise things are really tight just now so anything is appreciated , also there is a wee article about us in tomorrows evening times .

http://www.justgiving.com/end-end09/

will give you an update tomorrow after our first stage , John o'groats to Inverness approx 120 miles

RIGHT TODAY HAS NOW BEEN CANCELLED DUE TO VARIOUS COCKUP'S , NONE OF WHICH WERE OUR FAULT , so tomorrow will now be today ok

sorry wrong forum

just phoned the spl offices at hampden and it is �£13 million per year with an opt out after 3 years , who they opt out to is another question

this story is changing every bloody hour , does anyone actually know what the deal is , one minute it's over three years the next over five with a two year opt out , opting out exactly where !!!! so is it �£13million or just under �£22 million per year

Why mate, whats the problem?

If you thought we had problems before then wait to see what will come if this is true , the bbc are changing their report almost by the minute , sky are reporting it as a 3 year deal at �£65 million which is basically what we were getting , but if it is over the 5 years that's another player or �£1.6 million that will have to be found from somewhere

Well the bright chairmen of our fellow clubs have once again put self interest and shorttermism against the best interessts of the scottish game , this is truly an awful decision and one that will I am certain have serious repercussions on playing squads all across the country, what a truly depressing day never in my worst nightmares did I seriously believe they would vote for this.

sorry just about to do a complete 180degree , if what has been reported on the spl's official site is correct then it's actually a good deal , �£65 over 3 years is a hell of a lot better than �£65 over 5 , so not too shabby after all

He had to play exceptionally to do so. I don't think Adam is capable of raising his game to that level.

he played and scored in our champions league games and never looked out of place , ironically playing out of position , why not give him a chance , far too many on these forums do not give young scots any breaks , Aaron will be welcomed back with open arms even though he has shown absolutely nothing yet Adam get's no slack

I thought he still had potential and was unfairly criticised. However, once you lose the fans so badly, you should probably move on.

Hutton successfully managed to silence the booing majority , the vast majority of fans would have gladly given him away for nothing the previous season

would help if he was given a run in his chosen position , he was excellent in europe two season's back and has the knack of scoring goals , however wattie would much prefer to play players such as McCulloch , before younger players.

Until wattie leaves we will be subjected to more of the same next year , was speaking to the organiser at one of the biggest south side supporters clubs on Monday and he said they have lost mega members as fans who have been going for years are just not willing to put u'p with the same old rubbish again next season and were going to pick their games very carefully , seems a very simillar story amongst other clubs .

Murray will have to wake up to the fact that he is killing this club by 1000cuts and I hope that at the STS meeting whenever that takes place , this point is forceably made , fans who have been season ticketholders , shareholders for years can no longer accept the downsizing .

I was a season ticket holder for 25 years but Kaunus finally did it for me . and I haven't renewed ,and nothing that I am hearing from inside Ibrox is making me regret that decision

See point about all fans reps being involved.

 

Not to mention the club itself will be involved in the debate within the Assembly forum.

 

Like I say, no-one expects instant tangible results but hopefully we can outline a strategy to ensure further debate is possible in or out of the Assembly forum.

 

Frankie for this to work all the fans groups must pull together on this and not be splintered off as always happens .

The We Deserve Better campaign was an excellent campaign but because certain journalist were fed the usual morsels from Murray's plate was bye and largely dismissed as the workings of a small minority group of dissidents from the RST , instead of actually drawing out a debate on the points it raised .

So whilst setting the standard is another brilliant initiative we need to bring a focused look at what is best for the club we all love and if that means using some of the We deserve better campaign then so be it

I really hope this is taken forward , however my initial reaction is tempered by the fact that the RSA is where it is going to be discussed , as of yet I have still to hear one single positive thing to come froward from them , and what exactly does this forum(rsa) have the power to do

Doesn't really matter to me whether it's a pr stunt or not , if there's any credibility or not, like after Manchester in a matter of weeks the feel good factor starts to deteriorate , and the less is more begins , prepare for mediocrity and if they deliver any players it will feel like a bonus

Is your arse not sore yet?

easy tiger , all I can say is god bless asos shorts !!!!

Bloody hell - impressive stuff!

That's another 180 miles done this week , yesterday and today was 62,and 68 miles , next week it's oban (95miles) on Saturday and back on sunday , the sooner this trip starts the better :(

Well, I personally don't mind if there's good bonuses on offer for the players, but only if the bonus scheme is done properly. Maybe if bonuses were only on offer for a win it would make sense, but as I said at the time regarding the UEFA cup bonuses, in some players cases the bonus on offer isn't enough motivation for them, because they already get paid so much money. If you get paid over half a million quid a year, you're not likely to be highly motivated by a hundred grand. Ok, so it's a few months salary, but a few months salary doesn't mean as much to someone that makes over 10 grand a week as it does to someone that only makes a few hundred a weak.

But the whole problem is we are not set up for success , our whole bonus system was made up on the hoof and with the assumption that we were always going to get knocked out in the next round.

we has a situation where we made more money than any other season yet made a loss partly due to excessive bonuses , that is completely unacceptable in any business

Bluedell .I may be wrong on this but I was always under the impression we were just under the 50,000 average for c/l games . The figures I was always quoted by those inside ibroox was they banked on �£6 million when corporate was taken into account . I realise there are costs however all the figures that we generally quote are all top line anyway .

Also the figures quoted for getting out the group stages are not inclusive of tv revenue , that is only figured out , when the location of the teams are known and the percentages can then be worked out per country

Here's my post, S_A.

 

So the bottom line is that we will get 7.1m euros (�£6m) plus TV revenue plus cash for every point plus ticket sales?

 

CL cash �£6m

TV cash if Celtic don't qualify �£5m+ (last year was apparently �£5m)

Ticket sales �£4m

Win draw bonus ~�£1.5m

 

Could be worth �£17m.

Bluedell will our ticket revenue not be higher , with 3 matches at roughly �£30 each plus what we must take in via corporate I would have thought that �£4million was a wee bit conservative.

Also do you think that after the fiasco of the players bonuses for the uefa cup run , what are the odds that Bain has managed to sort this out , I'm all for the players profiting from success but not at the clubs expense ...

I posted a question re-the tv money and this was the reply , very clever people over on Bert,s site .

Are you talking about the Europa League or the Champions League? The €7.1M figure relates to the Champions League & is only for "participation".

How much Scottish clubs will get from the market pool depends entirely on the value of their own TV market compared to all the others. Since new contracts were negotiated everywhere with some going up & perhaps others going down it's therefore impossible to say for sure.

But Celtic & Rangers combined got €6.453M in 2007-08. If they keep the same percentage of the whole (2.36%) this would increase to €8.04M

The Europa League figures for participation are much smaller - as would be the market pool. Since this is the first time the market pool has been shared by all 48 clubs I wouldn't like to guess how the €60M allocated for this might be shared out.

Taken from Bert Kassies site

According to Marko Vjetrovic who is the president of Partizan Belgrad and a member of the European Club Asscociation (ECA) the prize money for the UEFA club competions will increase.

UEFA Champions League 2009/2010:

Bonus for domestic champion: 200.000 € *

1st qualifying round: 130.000 € *

2nd qualifying round: 130.000 € *

3rd qualifying round: 130.000 € *

Playoffs: 2.100.000 € *

Group stage: 7.100.000 €

Group match victory: 800.000 €

Group match draw: 400.000 €

1st knock out round: 3.000.000 €

Quarter-finals: 3.300.000 €

Semi-finals: 4.200.000 €

Final: 5.500.000 €

Winning the final: 3.500.000 €

* = These payments were only awarded to the clubs which quould not qualify for the UEFA Champions League group stage! Therefore Celtic do not get the 130,000 euros plus 2.1million euros plus the group stage money , that would be what they get should they get knocked out ( hopefully )

The remaining balance of € 341 million will be distributed according to the proportional value of each TV market, i.e. € 750,7 milion will be distributed from the group stage onwards (five times more than in the UEFA Europa League).

UEFA Europa League 2009/2010:

1st qualifying round: 90.000 €

2nd qualifying round: 90.000 €

3rd qualifying round: 90.000 €

Playoffs: 90.000 €

Group stage: 1.000.000 €

Group match victory: 140.000 €

Group match draw: 70.000 €

1st knock out round: 200.000 €

2nd knock out round: 300.000 €

Quarter-finals: 400.000 €

Semi-finals: 700.000 €

Final: 2.000.000 €

Winning the final: 1.000.000 €

The remaining balance of € 60 million will be distributed according to the proportional value of each TV market, i.e. € 150,36 milion will be distributed from the group stage onwards.

UEFA Supercup 2009:

Loser: 2.000.000 €

Winner: 2.500.000 €

Please note that as stated above the money quoted does not include our share of tv revenue for Scotland