Rick Roberts

1 hour ago, Bill said:

I think one of the most important achievements of Philippe Clement so far has been the bridge he has rebuilt between the players and the fans. Of course this depends on favourable results but, when you come to think of it, doesn't everything. However, before you can build that bridge you first have to recognise both the need for it and the value it brings. No manager since Walter has given me the impression they even began to understand this.

 

Since his first day in the job, PC has sought to speak directly to the support as an integral part of his plans for the club and that was key. It marked the difference between a shrewd, experienced manager and those who went before him. His greatest asset appears to be his ability to communicate effectively on multiple fronts. It's not often you find someone who communicates so clearly and commands respect so easily. I find it telling that I never hear fans talking about directors any more - the club now has only one face. (To reference another topic, it's Kloppesque)

 

Spot on. Bisgrove and Bennett must be the ones most happy with his performance! 

On 17/11/2022 at 16:24, Bill said:

I often hear fans discussing the Rangers identity - what the club stands for – and I find myself wondering what values, if any, the club actually does represent. What exactly is the Rangers brand?

 

I recently watched a Prime video on the life and career of Sir Alex Ferguson “Never Give In”. In football terms it obviously focussed on his achievements as a manager at Aberdeen and Manchester United but there were also hugely negative references to his experiences at Rangers, casting the club as a vindictive cultural dinosaur that was driven by sectarian preferences. I make no comment on the veracity of this but I felt it was nevertheless quite damaging.

 

It made me wonder where we are as a club and attendant community. While this is bound to be a subjective matter, it does seem to me that we had a clear set of values in the Struth/Symon era, values that were generally recognised in a positive sense by much of the external football community. Since the sacking of Scot Symon (coincident with the SAF era) there’s a body of opinion that we have often struggled as a club to maintain a positive brand. I’d be interested to see the opinions of other members.

Taking the question slightly off track. There's where we've been and then where we're going. Any successful club (or anything) takes a route that allows it to survive and then thrive. That means it has to adapt and change over time.

We have at times went down dead ends with our identity. We are at a place where we havent had the biggest turnover in Scotland for some time so we need to ensure we arent limiting ourselves there - that doesnt mean selling out or chasing any passing ambulance. My philosophy on this is simple, if we are holding on to something/anything that  limits our potential then its not good for Rangers (e.g. stop singing about the UVF and Bobby Sands).

As others have said, the traditional football club angle is one that stands out. A rich and varied history. It also a great selling point, as we'll always be older than most clubs. 

Our last 10 years and the Europa runs focused on hard work, over-coming adversity and getting behind the team. Our current predicament shows as a support we clearly value standards, fitness, winning and winning well. 

We also value and respond to strong leadership. That could be Gerrard or King, but also the club itself being the leader and statesmen within the Scottish game. Again, something currently missing. 

I guess what defines the brand are the parts you actually miss when it's taken away. 
 

2 minutes ago, ascender said:

I guess for the board, they'll point to the success on the pitch and off it last season to say they did their job and did it will. I think every supporter I know was willing to take second place in the league for a chance at the Europa League final for example.

 

 

As a one off, completely agree. Europa was a most welcome relief to a sorry title defence. Sadly the equation looks more like 2,3,4 seasons written off if things don't change fast. 

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It is telling (and baffling) that Gerrard and Gio haven't made bigger changes at the end of seasons where it seemed like the core of the squad were finished. Not sure how to explain that when we have also been spending money.

It's a puzzle. The amount of horsings we've taken this season has to see some go. 

13 minutes ago, ascender said:

I do agree with the point about the board and I'm also a bit surprised with the amount of flak Ross Wilson takes. It's far too simplistic an argument to say "sack the board and Wilson", but that's football fans for you. When you look at his signings, some haven't worked out, some have and some we seem to have signed without adjusting our system to fit them in. So were they the wrong players to have signed?

 

Surely this is because we want to see accountability? We have had some shocking stuff on and off the pitch in the last wee while and no-one is accountable. The only example I can think of is Morelos not going to Amsterdam.  

One point Gerrard always made was ensuring players really wanted to be there and play for him and getting rid of passengers early on. I dont think anyone has asked Morelos or Kamara that for a while? Whilst Gio seems happy to just bumble on with what he's given. 

50 minutes ago, onevision said:

Never seen any of their match yesterday but the stats read as follows;

Fouls 11 v 12

Bookings 0 v 7

Reds for second bookings 0 v 2

 

So almost all of Hearts fouls were deemed bookable yet none of the tims were.

I guess that could happen in a one off game. But there's years of stats with similar outcomes. 

7 hours ago, Bill said:

Over the years I've become convinced that Collum, Clancy and some others are essentially cheating. Not just incompetent but cheating.

 

What does that mean, cheating? Does it mean a premeditated intention to take decisions, deliberately and knowingly, with an objective of disadvantaging Rangers? Or is it an internal dislike of Rangers that subliminally influences their decision making. For instance, causing them to produce a red card when a more neutral stance would call for a yellow? In my book, cheating is whatever causes unfair decisions that, over a period, consistently disadvantage one club, whether deliberately or because of altered judgement.

 

You might say that supporters suffer the same bias in their interpretation of referees, especially those who gain a certain negative reputation. The difference of course is that supporters don't have an official obligation to be impartial and to apply the rules consistently and fairly. Referees do and some of them are cheats.

This is it. No ones saying every refereeing decision is biased. But there is a clear trend of decisions cropping up which then cost us points. Who knows, by the end of the season this could be the only contentious game and we lose the league by 2 points.

On top of that celtics fouls/cards stats have been slanted for years. 

I actually think it was considerably worse in Gerrards first couple of years. 

17 minutes ago, stewarty said:

Happy to be proved wrong but I think the dark arts of Ashley are all over this.  I think the reason this has come to light, and why the CMA are alerted to the issue, is that it was part of the myriad of court cases involving us and Ashley/ Sports Direct and his annoyance at our deal with Elite which squeezed out SD.  

Didn't SD buy over Elite? 

The reliability issues around Roofe are a big issue for me. When fit, he was very good, but wasn't available when we really needed him. Will be sad if Morelos goes but then maybe we need a change here.

Based on their domestic seasons we can easily upgrade Barisic and Kamara.

We need to allow Aribo to play in his best position and see some more of that winter form he had. Half expect him to be sold though. 

I hope McGregor chooses to go out at the very top and not see out a decline. This may also enable a change to tactics and playing styles.

Happy for a few to remain as squad players but we can surely upgrade Wright, Sakala, Itten etc. The youngsters look capable replacements. 

If Davis accepts reduced terms then happy for him to stay. He's an experienced, professional winner. 

1 hour ago, JohnMc said:

The jury is always out, that's the nature of football management, particularly if you're the Rangers manager. You're only a run of bad results away from criticism and questions, they know this when they take the job. 

 

GvB inherited a squad that had hit some wonderful heights last season but was stuttering this season. Our recruitment in the summer hasn't really strengthened us. Sakala reminds me of Lovenkrands, great when he's got space to run into, but he won't contribute a lot against 10 men defences sitting deep. Lundstrom has looked better recently but has taken 6 months to find his form and position. Scott Wright is a bit part player at best and Jack Simpson doesn't seem to have won the confidence of Gerrard or GvB, I expect he'll be back in The Championship in the summer. The least said about the signing of Ofoborh the better. Added to Goldson, Arfield, Balogun, Davis and McGregor all in the final months of their contracts, all senior pros at the club and I expect the guys who 'run' the dressing room and you could see a less that ideal atmosphere to inherit.

 

In January our squad was weakened. Patterson, despite not making any impact at Everton, was an exceptional talent. Ramsay is clearly struggling with injury and is using us as an attempt to get fit, Dialo is a young player who has tricks but little heart or desire from what i've seen. The young Polish lad might prove an astute buy, time will tell. Add that to Aribo having to go to Africa and come back half the player who left.

 

None of this is GvB's doing. 

 

GvB got our tactics so wrong against Celtic it's still painful to speak about it. But he got them so right against Prague and Dortmund. The lack of rotation and subs in recent games has puzzled. I feel that's connected to fitness or illness, I mean it's not like the Dutch don't understand how subs work. I can't help but feel there's more to this than we know. Likewise not starting Balogun, I assume he's not fit enough for two games a week and the management team thought we'd be able to beat St Johnstone without him but not Red Star. I'm guessing, but nothing else makes sense to me. 

 

Some players have improved under GvB, some have done the opposite. Barasic looks like a shadow of himself, Kamara has lost his spark, Roofe isn't trusted, McGregor is suddenly a weakness. Yet Morelos looks reborn, Sakala started to show something and Bassey is now a first choice starter and Tav looks like he's risen to the challenge. 

 

Gerrard was always going to be a hard man to replace. Gerrard brought exciting, entertaining football back after a period of ineptitude and ridicule. His presence and charisma, his media savvy and his instinctive understanding of the club and the support were enormous assets for him and the club. Whoever we replaced him with was going to struggle to match that. GvB isn't charismatic, he's not got the profile of Gerrard despite a stellar playing career, he's a different type of manager as well. 

 

This league isn't won or lost yet. I've been bewildered by some of our performances and angered by some of our decisions recently. But, I still don't buy that our city rivals are the world beaters their support think they are, everything is still to play for, fine margins will tell in the end. I'm backing GvB. For now. 

Well said John.

Like others said, I was hoping he could build on Gerrard's work, but it looks like Gerrard had the club (all areas) over-performing. We are seeing things settle back down now, which feels a little short. 

GVB comes from a certain era at Rangers. I'm not sure that transfers to the understanding Gerrard had of the club or our situation. Similarly, that goes for the board. There's a been loss of that important, learned knowledge over this season.  A poor continuity strategy.

44 minutes ago, Frankie said:

No doubt about it. It's a massive own goal and I don't understand how Bisgrove and Graham - amongst others - believed this was a good idea.

Surely they would think to ask a few people first? 

1 hour ago, Bluedell said:

To their credit, they are one of the few organisations that have come out and stated that they consider H*n to be sectarian.

Unless it's from John Needham, of course. 

27 minutes ago, 26th of foot said:

Similar to Frankie, the first couple of years on the RST Board(2003 and 2004) I had a fair bit of correspondence with Nil by Mouth.

 

One of the RST's early members was a regional full time Trade Union Official. He penned two letters addressed to NBM, both told of a Trade Union member suffering sectarian abuse at place of employment and, asking for a meeting to impart advice. The only difference in the correspondence was in one letter the abused person was a Celtic supporter, the other letter concerned a Rangers fan.

 

Within the week, NBM replied to the letter reference the Celtic fan. The aforementioned Trade Union Official was invited for a chat. A subsequent telephone call told the Official NBM were keen to use the circumstance to right a wrong and harvest publicity. After a wait of six weeks, the Official penned a second letter concerning the Rangers supporter because he had NOT received a reply to the first one. The RST exposed the hypocrisy, the Chair acknowledged receipt of the Celtic letter but had no records of the two letters reference the Rangers supporter.

 

The RST formally extended an invitation to NBM founder, Cara Henderson(girlfriend of the murdered, Mark Scott) to attend an RST Board meeting and the first RST AGM. Again, we received no replies.

 

The nearest NBM ever got to being on side with a Rangers grievance was the two effigies occurrence. Both hanged by the neck from the roof of the North Stand-Curve at Celtic Park. Both had hands tied behind their backs, one was replete in an orange collarette, the other in a Rangers scarf; the strange fruit twisted in the breeze for 45 minutes. Beneath was a huge banner proclaiming, "they hung out the banner of war" and a further two dozen smaller flags emblazoned with, "KAH" - kill all H--ns. Nil by Mouth declared it sectarian.

 

Nine members of the Green Brigade were arrested, charged and, appeared in court. They all pled not guilty and the trial date was set for three months hence. At the second court hearing the nine charged were informed all charges were being withdrawn by the PF because all evidence had disappeared. We were promised an investigation reference the evidence being disappeared and and findings would be published in a report. Five years and counting. NBM does not reply to correspondence asking for continued support to ensure the report is published.

Thanks 26th. I'd heard of the first story but never more details. 

A cognisant support and club should've nipped it in the bud back then. 

2 hours ago, Frankie said:

Had some dealings with them on my time on the RST board and found them opaque and inconsistent.

 

They almost always only want to offer comment if consulted by the media and rarely grasp the nettle themselves which made their statement of last week about 4LHAD all the more jarring.

Likewise. I think I wanted to believe it was more than just another celtic prop. I can't see anything suggesting otherwise. 

Some mind-benders from 10 years ago...

I'm not sure how much of your grievance is related to football rather than sectarianism.

I'd be cautious however about saying the campaign of the IRA and others like them is about religion, most people would regard their objectives as political.

I'm looking to gather some opinions and experience on any contact or correspondence with NBM?

This can be good stuff too. If you know about their work in schools etc then it'd good to see that represented 1st hand.

All comments welcome.

9 hours ago, RANGERRAB said:

Tom Devine is a vile, bitter old man who deeply despises Rangers football club and its supporters.

And he thinks he can justify this hatred as an academic who thinks this makes him immune from any sort of accusation.

 

His bigotry is acceptable, so he thinks. And his tactics are almost always the same: accuse the other side. The art of denial & deflection .

 

Throughout my life(I’m in my mid fifties now) I’ve watched the likes of Devine and his ethnicity with much curiosity. I refer to them as ‘tartan Irish’ who claim to be Scots but antagonise their Irish ancestry to get a reaction which they often get. Then the accusations begin. 
 

Ive always believed these people want to turn Scotland into a ROI MK II, an anti-British state and now seem to have teamed up with our own homegrown SNP. But there are plenty who oppose it his & many within the Rangers support which seems to tip Devine and others over the edge periodically

 

 

 

 

Totally agree. For the last part, until we collectively reclaim some of media and get that message out then it'll continue to pass the majority by.

22 minutes ago, Blue Moon said:

Brilliant article.  Thank you for that.  I've said it before, time for Rangers to back the fans, not when they do something stupid but when the entire support are under attack.  I used to admire Devine for his impartiality and was shocked and sickened to watch that interview.  

Definitely, there's still some glaring gaps in strategy and communications. 

5 minutes ago, 26th of foot said:

Reference Cosgrove's Podcast.

 

He appeared on BBC Radio Scotland for a dozen years on a Thursday afternoon, doing his take on how news was handled from a Scottish perspective. It was a 45 minute slot where he was joined with Prof' Eamonn O'Neill. The hosts of the show were John Beattie and Anne Marie Watson. Cosgrove and O'Neill's take was rarely accurate thus, rarely objective. Almost two years past, BBC Scotland cut the strings and Cosgrove hit out at Beattie, "he's getting all the jobs". Cosgrove took the media analysis to a Podcast, co-hosted by Eamonn O'Neill. BBC Scotland's Janice Forsyth Produces it and Angela Haggerty is a regular contributor.

 

I think what did for Cosgrove on the Beeb was his constant drone of misinformation and disinformation on the murder of Northern Irish Journalist, Lyra McKee. Regularly, he returned to it making ludicrous claims. I do not think Cosgrove(soon to enter his eighth decade) has ever been involved in a firefight? His final view on McKee's murder was, "they'll have to find a new classification, she was caught in crossfire". We know McKee was standing to the rear of the line of PSNI Officers confronting a group of rioting young Irish republicans. She was mostly in hard cover behind a Land Rover.

 

We know eight rounds were fired from a pistol(recovered by the Police). No other shots were fired, Lyra McKee died from a shot to her head.

 

The McKee case is live, only yesterday another four were arrested in connection. Any further comment could stray into sub judice.

 

Cosgrove and Stewart have been reading from scripts provided by Gerry Braiden for a long time. The former Herald Journo has been these last couple of years, the SNP's Policy Advisor/PRO to Glasgow City Council Convenor, Susan Aitken. Gerry is from west Belfast. 

Just once, i'd like to see someone have him justify his hatred and marginalisation of all things 'unionist' and how it squares with his equality and parity persona.

Made the mistake of listening to Cosgrove's podcast. Everything you'd expect. How great he is and how bad Rangers, unionism, the right, the famine song are. 

Stewart done his usual mental gymnastics to excuse Godley and the Daily Record bigots. Not so much the H&H lads. Cosgrove has choose his useful idiot wisely. 

Why would Stewart not discuss the racial angle in Godley's tweets? Seems an important omission. Only the online spats with "Rangers trolls" count apparently. 

48 minutes ago, 26th of foot said:

2,300 Viewers!

 

Fellow Gersnetters, you may remember two and half years past, BBC Scotland launched it's new channel, 'BBCScotland' on the satellite listings? It was launched at considerable cost and has an annual budget of £32 million. We know Stuart Cosgrove is a heavy hitter in UK media circles because he never tires of telling us all so. He predicted a new, modern Scotland would embrace the new channel whole heartedly because there was a distinct need for Scots folk to be recipients of news specifically honed to their needs. Of course, DrStu' is in a prime position to dip his ladle into such a gravy train, remuneration for any documentaries requiring his Perth tones will be viscous.

 

Yesterday we were given two new pieces of information. Firstly, one of the two main Presenters of the flagship news show, the Nine', Rebecca Curran has begun maternity leave and an advert to fill the position is offering a salary between £48,000 and £82,000. Secondly, the latest viewing figures are horrendous. The flagship Nine has regularly attracted an average of 15,000 viewers, the last quarter is suggesting a further fall to between 10,000-12,000 viewers and, on occasion just 2,3000 viewers have tuned in.I wonder what the other main Presenter, the ever professional Martin Geissler thinks of this debacle? I suspect he thinks his co-Presenter has experienced tremendous fortune?

 

Now, as a BBC License Fee paying Rangers supporter; may I suggest a reason for this calamity? Earlier this week, with the Daily Record - Rangers supporter spat erupting(it's now made the pages of Private Eye), the Nine handed James Cook ten minutes to interview Prof' Tom Devine on sectarianism. Remember, James Cook and his then Producer both offered unreserved apologies to both the then club Manager, Ally McCoist and the Club itself for deliberately re-Editing an interview with McCoist. Cook posed a question on sectarianism to Ally, then cut the film to show McCoist laughing. The Club's top scorer complained at being portrayed as someone not taking the matter seriously and has not spoken to PQ since. 

 

Why was James Cook awarded such on air time, given his previous subjective behaviour on this particular matter? I believe Cook is a Dundee United supporter and voraciously ambitious. He was rewarded for his efforts eight years past by achieving the BBC Correspondent in America for three years. He was tempted back because of the high remuneration on offer and, finds the best way to retain his place on the gravy train, is to continue to sink the boot into Rangers.

 

At 2,300 viewers, James would be better off taking a megaphone to Tannadice.

The Tom Devine interview was a proper carve up. I hope the club and support don't just let it pass without redress.  

Thanks. Really enjoyed that. 

It outlines some truths and what a mess it's all been allowed to become. 

2 hours ago, Bill said:

No matter the efforts made to achieve universal standards of behaviour among people (in this case Rangers fans) there will always be a minority who find compliance impossible and this has to be borne in mind when setting expectations and strategies.

All true. And I thought about not saying anything. But I saw enough to think we need to work harder here. 

21 minutes ago, Scott7 said:

I hope the Club would endorse that article, send it to the SG and ask them if they think the author represents the majority of Rangers supporters. He speaks for me on this.

Thanks Scott. 

2 minutes ago, Bluedell said:

 

 

I believe that the lesson has been largely learned from most sections in the support. You can never get 100% buy-in. That's just not possible, but by-and-large, there's been progress made. However I'm presuming that a majority of those causing the trouble weren't regulars at Ibrox. They were the ones that turn up once a season for a European night, half-cut and coked up, that the club has virtually no direct interaction with. They don't visit the club's website. They don't read the club's statements. I don't see what the club can do to reach these people. It's just not possible.

I agree with most of that and I wouldn't put it on the club to deal with. However, I would say I saw enough to be concerned about it. A lack of imagination in a fair chunk of the singing. That might have been bravado and being outside the stadium or on the streets or whatever. I might be glass half empty here but it's going to lead to problems down the line. 

Goldson. I think he deserves the recognition.

Tav, without the injury would've probably got my vote. Or similarly, had Kent had a few more sparkling games then it would've been him, as his best is unplayable. 

2 hours ago, Bill said:

How many times am I going to read the same points being made about the same issues, with no hope of ever reaching different conclusion? Sometimes it's just obvious that these people we complain about have us exactly where they want us ... stuck in their quagmire and unable to move on.

 

Give it a rest chaps. There are better battles to fight.

Agree that some battles are lost, but no harm in understanding and learning from it. 

There's a constant sniping at the club - scoring points or testing for weakness. I've no doubt plans are in place with us in mind - be the hate crime bill, strict liability etc. Better to be vigilant and ready.