Our Improving Finances - Muir of the Same?

[ascender 352]

Financial idiot here....

 

You can't have it both ways though can you? If the accounts are being manipulated, then they've been doing a pretty lousy job of it, because they still show a massive debt. I just don't understand the creative accounting suggestions being made.

 

We all know that we have a massive leadership problem within the club, but there can be no doubts surely that we seem to have at least stopped the massive over-spending and appear to be on a much more prudent course. Whatever or whoever has been driving that seems to be doing a good job and thankfully its not cost us on the park yet.

 

I know its not so, but the leadership and finance issues as they stand are kind of separate (although intrinsically linked).

 

One thing is for sure, with all the cost cutting which ha been done very publicly, if the latest accounts don't show a big cut in spending and debt, then we as fans should be up in arms. Although we know we'll probably just sit back and grumble quietly to ourselves instead of banging down SDM's door.....

[Bluedell 5,329]

Financial idiot here....

 

You can't have it both ways though can you? If the accounts are being manipulated, then they've been doing a pretty lousy job of it, because they still show a massive debt. I just don't understand the creative accounting suggestions being made.

 

 

The accounts aren't being manipulated and I don't think that was what MF was suggesting.

[ascender 352]

The accounts aren't being manipulated and I don't think that was what MF was suggesting.

 

Wabash said "Big Dave is a dab hand at creative accounting, or so I am led to believe".

 

As to the rest, I was speaking in broad terms as there seems to be some contradictions (no surprise) in what people are saying about our finances.

[Bluedell 5,329]

Wabash said "Big Dave is a dab hand at creative accounting, or so I am led to believe".

 

As to the rest, I was speaking in broad terms as there seems to be some contradictions (no surprise) in what people are saying about our finances.

 

 

I wouldn't dream of trying to explain one of Wabash's posts.

[Stimpy 0]

I think you might be confusing finance with accounting and rumour with fact. Unfortunately you're not the only one.

 

Both are linked!

 

Accounting maybe a bookkeeping exercise but financial analysis uses the figures from accounting for various means.

 

Like I said before - we will wait for the accounts to be published to see if the club is going in the right direction.

 

Rumour: the debt has been cut substantially.

 

Fact: We weren't buying players for two years now we are.

 

Unless Murray has went back to his old ways and is letting the club spend money we don't have, there has to be something in the rumour about substantial cuts?

[calscot 0]

I think it's obvious that the finances were poor and there has been a lot of cost cutting to alleviate this. There is no guarantee but it would be astounding if our finances hadn't improved over the last couple of years.

 

We have a smaller squad with a smaller average wage and small bonuses. Our income may have dropped but not as significantly as our outgoings. We may have spent money on players this summer - but not much more than what we raised from sales.

 

The club is most certainly leaner and our liabilities much reduced. The strange thing is that we still seem to be able to compete well domestically, but after seeing all our teams crash out of Europe to less than salubrious opposition, it's not the biggest surprise.

 

However, it does make you think what position we could have been in, had we followed a similar strategy when we were more affluent and had a bigger credit roll. Instead of squad sizes of 32, full of expensive crocks and wasters, how well would we have done with a smaller but high quality squad of about 20? Our finances would definitely have not gone into melt down.

 

I think we're being forced into the reality of the modern way a club should be run - unfortunately it is at a time when income is huge elsewhere which forces wages astronomically high for what could be considered pretty mediocre players.

 

Take Laudrup's old wage, adjust for inflation and then compare it to some of our current highest paid players... Are they really worth that amount of money?

 

Our main hope for the future is the schandenfreude of the English getting bored with football, Sky's income crashing and half of the EPL going under due to massive debts and cash flow problems; then UEFA having to step in to stabilise the situation by completely restructuring how football clubs can be run and limiting spending and debt to a factor of season ticket sales.

 

The football landscape is pretty weird now with disproportionate media incomes and sugar daddies making a mockery of the whole thing. They have just turned it into a massive pyramid rip-off scheme where most pay a fortune to watch their team of super-rich mediocre players, achieve very little.

 

Till that happens, we're better off being savvy about our situation and tempering our expectations with realism. I think we need to show some sophistication rather than turning into a baying mob.

[Guest Northampton_loyalist]

..........

However, it does make you think what position we could have been in, had we followed a similar strategy when we were more affluent and had a bigger credit roll. Instead of squad sizes of 32, full of expensive crocks and wasters, how well would we have done with a smaller but high quality squad of about 20? Our finances would definitely have not gone into melt down.

.......................

 

 

Hindsight is always 20-20 but this is the thing that is most depressing for me. If we had taken ONLY the fee for Flo (not bashing him) and invested it in world class scouts, 3 or 4 kids from around Europe and the coaches to train them we would have that conveyor belt of talent. If we had taken the Prodan cash and bought as much land around G51 as we could, financially we would be set. 2 players and our entire future would have been set, and not even 2 players that made the blindest bit of difference to our on field fortunes (Ok, so flo had a decent scoring record, we could have got a decent scoring record type striker for a million or so, Prodan didnt kick a ball in anger for us).

 

Murray went for the quick fix option and tried to buy us to success and as soon as English clubs found their feet and the way to SKY's bank account, we were always going to be left behind. Some foresight could have seen us today in a possition to at least compete for the Europa and probably look at last 16 CL most seasons. Furthermore, that foresight would have had us perfectly positioned to capitalize on the inevitable demise of the EPL (again, it ight be said).

 

As I said, hindsight is always perfect but even the smallest investment in our future back in the early 90's would be seeing massive rewards now (Auchinhowie is a case in point, we dont have a youth set-up to speak of and we are still producing the odd kid destined for great things, imagine how many more we would have if we actually focussed a little on decent youth scouting and coaching? and remember Auchinhowie was practically forced on Murray by Advocaat anyway, it more than likely would never have happened without the wee dutchman)

[Totti 0]

We've managed to sign a player for �£4m because we just got rid of half our squad. Big wow.

 

Over 10 players departed, total income �£4m. BRAVO.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Totti

[Totti 0]

Hindsight is always 20-20 but this is the thing that is most depressing for me. If we had taken ONLY the fee for Flo (not bashing him) and invested it in world class scouts, 3 or 4 kids from around Europe and the coaches to train them we would have that conveyor belt of talent. If we had taken the Prodan cash and bought as much land around G51 as we could, financially we would be set. 2 players and our entire future would have been set, and not even 2 players that made the blindest bit of difference to our on field fortunes (Ok, so flo had a decent scoring record, we could have got a decent scoring record type striker for a million or so, Prodan didnt kick a ball in anger for us).

 

Murray went for the quick fix option and tried to buy us to success and as soon as English clubs found their feet and the way to SKY's bank account, we were always going to be left behind. Some foresight could have seen us today in a possition to at least compete for the Europa and probably look at last 16 CL most seasons. Furthermore, that foresight would have had us perfectly positioned to capitalize on the inevitable demise of the EPL (again, it ight be said).

 

As I said, hindsight is always perfect but even the smallest investment in our future back in the early 90's would be seeing massive rewards now (Auchinhowie is a case in point, we dont have a youth set-up to speak of and we are still producing the odd kid destined for great things, imagine how many more we would have if we actually focussed a little on decent youth scouting and coaching? and remember Auchinhowie was practically forced on Murray by Advocaat anyway, it more than likely would never have happened without the wee dutchman)

Scouts do not command high wages and could still easily be done in a fairly vast quantity.

 

Plus you should know by now not to make fantasy type posts about a club with as an archaic infrastructure as ours. We have no vision or ambition.

 

PS - Lets not forget that in the 00's we financially stablised ourselves 2 or 3 times only to fuck it up again. Smith spent too much money when he came back in on players that largely had little resale value. David Murray has almost killed this club one time too many. He can't run us in a cost effective way. We either spend far too much and go massively in debt or spend fuck all and end up with a shite, worthless squad that risks losing out on the CL money.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Totti

[Guest Northampton_loyalist]

Scouts do not command high wages and could still easily be done in a fairly vast quantity.

 

Plus you should know by now not to make fantasy type posts about a club with as an archaic infrastructure as ours. We have no vision or ambition.

 

PS - Lets not forget that in the 00's we financially stablised ourselves 2 or 3 times only to fuck it up again. Smith spent too much money when he came back in on players that largely had little resale value. David Murray has almost killed this club one time too many. He can't run us in a cost effective way. We either spend far too much and go massively in debt or spend fuck all and end up with a shite, worthless squad that risks losing out on the CL money.

 

who is making fantasy type posts? I am lamenting the short termism that brought us to where we are.

 

A scouting network today would be pretty pointless, we need the coaches in place to train the kids we get. Just hiring a load of cheap scouts will do hee haw towards improving the club. On top of that, the boat has sailed and clubs with cash have ALL markets well and truly scouted to death. Any kid anywhere in the world that has promise is already on the radar of the clubs that can and do have a track record of bringing them through. We would be trying to break into a full market today, as opposed to leading the way a decade or more ago.