Danny 0 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 One other thing, while Cal may have a point about saverangers being a theoretical share investment issue, the name of the website doesn't reflect that. It quite simply suggests an invitation to donate money to save the club from extinction. It may actually be about shares, but I bet a lot of those theoretical pledges were purely on the idea of giving money to keep the club afloat. 'rebuilding-rangers' would have been a more accurate site name. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyk 158 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I think of saverangers.com as a future share initiative for fans to buy when a takeover hopefully happens? I pledged £1000 to this and would still buy shares if this went ahead in the way I think it will. I will also soon make a very smaller donation to the new fighting fund which is asking for money now to save the club short term before any takeover happens. I agree with others there should only be one site doing this as it does and is causing confusion among supporters. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,195 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I understand the sentiment johnny.... But where I have confusion is that the reality is your "share" for your 1,000 will, ultimately, be a donation anyway. Look at what SaveRangers are saying on the website.... they are saying profits should be re-invested into the club. Which is fine. But if profits are re-invested then what is your share certificate worth ? Is it an investment or is it a donation ? If we assume that the fans bought the club for the market value of the assets (Ibrox and MP) then subsequent to that the plan is to re-invest the profits, then your share for 1,000 is merely a donation. I can understand others seeing it differently but that is how I see it. And given that I think the need is as great, if not greater, to provide the club with funds NOW. So I will be making my donation to the club this week. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plgsarmy 111 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 My wording may not have been impeccable on this occasion. I am completely against saverangers. It's a total nonsense and always was. Anyone can run a website to gain 'market research' but it's tot to expect action based on the supposed intention. And RST are always prime target for an attack, given how poorly run they are. Saverangers is a joint initiative from all three fans organisations but don't let that get in the way of you having a go at the Trust. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbr 1,247 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Date the ban will be lifted: Never HAHA , just had a life ban for daring to argue with MD on ff , he is a liar nothing more ...... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbr 1,247 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 FRom someone at the RFFF meeting ... Mark D took the microphone at request of Sandy Jardine and was asked if the SaveRangers campaign would take a back seat in favour of the RFFF as one supporter stated that it may cause confusion having the two running at the same time. Mark D then intimated to all that the SaveRangers campaign would be suspended. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,195 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Date the ban will be lifted: Never HAHA , just had a life ban for daring to argue with MD on ff , he is a liar nothing more ...... Seriously though, what did you say ? I have never really been on FF (my username/password doesnt work for some reason) but I am astounded at the number of life bans that take place over there. Are RFC fans really all neanderthalic apes ? I didnt think we were... but if the life bans given out are indicative maybe the Tims are right about us I am not having a go at FF by the way, maybe we do have "social ills" members in our core - we must just be lucky on Gersnet not to attract them - myself excluded of course 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plgsarmy 111 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I understand the sentiment johnny.... But where I have confusion is that the reality is your "share" for your 1,000 will, ultimately, be a donation anyway. Look at what SaveRangers are saying on the website.... they are saying profits should be re-invested into the club. Which is fine. But if profits are re-invested then what is your share certificate worth ? Is it an investment or is it a donation ? If we assume that the fans bought the club for the market value of the assets (Ibrox and MP) then subsequent to that the plan is to re-invest the profits, then your share for 1,000 is merely a donation. I can understand others seeing it differently but that is how I see it. And given that I think the need is as great, if not greater, to provide the club with funds NOW. So I will be making my donation to the club this week. Everyone is entitled to do what they want. Luckily there was a meeting in Friday where people like Andy Smillie ensured that there were at least some safeguards in place and that the money didn't go to the administrators as first planned. I prefer keeping my money for a share issue where I would be represented at Board level in the future running of the Club. The administrators have not said they require more money and I believe this fund will now only be used if something unexpected crops up and there is a cash flow issue. I'm not sure what will happen if there are millions left in the fund and the club then gets sold. Obviously, if things became worse and the administrators said we need cash to survive then I would donate but until then I don't want my money just sitting in a fund that might never be needed or used. That is just my personal opinion. No doubt I will be accused of not caring for the club but nothing could be further from the truth. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbr 1,247 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Today, 15:55 Soda Lug On The Bench Join Date: 28-02-2008 Posts: 279 Re: Is the Save Rangers campaign defunct now with the launch of the fighting fund? Quote: Originally Posted by rbr Anything that is left will be decidec by those in charge of the money , saverangers is not an officially recognised scheme , it is an RST schemem and should be closed until the new owners are in place , many posters are holding back as there is confusion between the schemes. At the RFFF meeting , Sandy Jardine and Jim Hannah both asked that the saverangers site be taken down , MD agreed it would , in front of witnesses Ooops better edit. You are wrong. #27 Today, 16:00 Laudrup1 http://tinyurl.com/mn8hrq Join Date: 28-07-2006 Location: On MILF Island Posts: 11,040 Re: Saverangers.com and Fan Fighting Fund – why both matter and need the right balanc Quote: Originally Posted by sgt steve mcgarrett Seriously do you expect Rangers to invite 473,394 individual fans and not act upon anything unless they get 473,394 fans to agree on something?! They invited all registerted supporters clubs to send 2 representatives. As sensible an approach as any I can think of. It'll get a cross section of dedicated fans. They backed the idea 100%. That's a powerful endorsement. Our club is in the shyt so is it just a little too much to ask for a positive backing of any initiative that will help us through these stormy waters rather than picking on nuance or minor detail etc ????!! Probably not, no. However, would it have not been easier (and more correct) to simply put everyone in attendance. It's no wonder people feel polarised from time to time when statements like that are made. When everyone is urging people to pull together, every effort should be made to ensure that no one should feel unaware / left out of what's going on. I'm on board with this 100% but I'll admit to having had no idea this was happening until I saw this thread and it utterly confused me after making my pledge to SaveRangers initially. #28 Today, 16:01 The_Purple_Standard Trialist Join Date: 16-02-2012 Posts: 14 Re: Is the Save Rangers campaign defunct now with the launch of the fighting fund? Quote: Originally Posted by craigie The Fighting Fund is to see the club through until it's sold. Any left goes in to the SaveRangers.com fund I think. 25/10 Will it? That's different from what was intimated at the meeting on Saturday, where it was said that the destination of any excess funds would be decided by RFFG Committee following consultation with the fans. #29 Today, 16:03 Grandmaster_Suck "A thin-skinned, chronically-offended, individual" Join Date: 06-03-2005 Location: The Disco Inferno Posts: 19,012 Re: Is the Save Rangers campaign defunct now with the launch of the fighting fund? Quote: Originally Posted by rbr Anything that is left will be decidec by those in charge of the money , saverangers is not an officially recognised scheme , it is an RST schemem and should be closed until the new owners are in place , many posters are holding back as there is confusion between the schemes. At the RFFF meeting , Sandy Jardine and Jim Hannah both asked that the saverangers site be taken down , MD agreed it would , in front of witnesses That's simply a lie. SaveRangers.com is endorsed a a means to identify interest in a share issue and the levels at which it should be pitched. Richard Cleary voiced the opinion SR should be closed but the meeting was told exactly what SaveRangers was about and that those signed up would be made aware of the Fighting Fund and how to contribute once it was launched. #30 Today, 16:04 rbr Gold Star Poster Join Date: 08-08-2006 Location: southside Posts: 2,563 Re: Is the Save Rangers campaign defunct now with the launch of the fighting fund? Quote: Originally Posted by Soda Lug Ooops better edit. You are wrong. Why should I edit , and no I am not wrong . Just to be clear I am a lifetime RST member , the saverangers scheme is a fine idea for when the club is safe and its future can be discussed in a positive vein , however at the moment there is still a massive threat and a great deal of uncertainty around the very existence of our club. Having two schemes , one called the RangersFansFightingFund and one asking for pledges called saverangers only confuses the issue , thats why it was asked of MD to take it down , he agreed in front of witness to do so , its very simple really. #31 Today, 16:04 Soda Lug On The Bench Join Date: 28-02-2008 Posts: 279 Re: Is the Save Rangers campaign defunct now with the launch of the fighting fund? Quote: Originally Posted by The_Purple_Standard Will it? That's different from what was intimated at the meeting on Saturday, where it was said that the destination of any excess funds would be decided by RFFG Committee following consultation with the fans. That is correct. #32 Today, 16:05 rbr Gold Star Poster Join Date: 08-08-2006 Location: southside Posts: 2,563 Re: Is the Save Rangers campaign defunct now with the launch of the fighting fund? Quote: Originally Posted by Grandmaster_Suck That's simply a lie. SaveRangers.com is endorsed a a means to identify interest in a share issue and the levels at which it should be pitched. Richard Cleary voiced the opinion SR should be closed but the meeting was told exactly what SaveRangers was about and that those signed up would be made aware of the Fighting Fund and how to contribute once it was launched. Are you stating on here that you were not asked in front of witnesses, that Sandy jardine and Jim Hannah asked you to take the saverangers site down. #33 Today, 16:07 The_Purple_Standard Trialist Join Date: 16-02-2012 Posts: 14 Re: Is the Save Rangers campaign defunct now with the launch of the fighting fund? Quote: Originally Posted by Soda Lug Ooops better edit. You are wrong. No he is not. Mark D took the microphone at request of Sandy Jardine and was asked if the SaveRangers campaign would take a back seat in favour of the RFFF as one supporter stated that it may cause confusion having the two running at the same time. Mark D then intimated to all that the SaveRangers campaign would be suspended. Edited March 13, 2012 by rbr 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,195 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Everyone is entitled to do what they want. Luckily there was a meeting in Friday where people like Andy Smillie ensured that there were at least some safeguards in place and that the money didn't go to the administrators as first planned. I prefer keeping my money for a share issue where I would be represented at Board level in the future running of the Club. The administrators have not said they require more money and I believe this fund will now only be used if something unexpected crops up and there is a cash flow issue. I'm not sure what will happen if there are millions left in the fund and the club then gets sold. Obviously, if things became worse and the administrators said we need cash to survive then I would donate but until then I don't want my money just sitting in a fund that might never be needed or used. That is just my personal opinion. No doubt I will be accused of not caring for the club but nothing could be further from the truth. You have absolutely no idea if you would get Board representation from the monies raised from SaveRangers, none at all. It all depends on who the owner is. Take Brian Kennedy as an example.... he said he works alone. Do you think he would accept the SaveRangers money and give up a board seat ? He might but from what he has said it is unlikely. Is this why RST has jumped in with the BK's, because they HAVE provided that assurance ? Let me give my perspective. Getting board representation guarantees you NOTHING anyway. Just because the fans are represented on the Board doesnt mean that they will be the safeguard needed to ensure the club is run properly. The financial statements have been there for all to see during the SDM reign, were we complaining loudly as fans groups about the abyss we stared into more than once ? I dont think I saw it from fans groups - saw more dissent from people like maineflyer and CammyF than I did from the fans groups. When did SaveRangers announce these safeguards ? I havent received anything saying such. A board seat wouldnt have been enough to oust, nor even deny, SDM and his policies so why do you think it would be enough now ? As I said, no guarantee. With regards to what happens with the RFFF I am sure that, given it is through the RSA, there will be a contingency in place and that people will be asked how they wish the excess funds to be put to use (assuming that everyone donating doesnt want a refund of the donation) - be that a transfer fee, wages to keep a player, painting of Ibrox, whatever. And even if there ISNT a contingency, one can be done at any point in time. The thing that still gets me though is that there is no guarantee that there is even a club for the "SaveRangers" philosophy to buy into. We could be liquidated by that time due to lack of donations into the RFFF. Now, you will know more than me undoubtedly, but I thought the RFFF was done to ensure the club can complete its fixtures for the season by paying bills..... and those spearheading that will have more knowledge than I on how likely or unlikely that is. And I would be incredibly surprised if they hadnt discussed the merits of the fund with Duff & Phelps. You are right in that everyone is entitled to do what they want. But I personally will go down the route of the official RFFF as they are saying that there is a need for funds RIGHT NOW. I would rather donate NOW, see the club survive and then have no money to INVEST.... than hold my cash back so that I could invest but see the club GO UNDER before I need to invest. Edited March 13, 2012 by craig 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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