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unashamed copy of FF post re the club


Guest Stan Smith

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Well lets look at it this way....when they can't hide behind their minutes applause, it's cancelled.

We all know why the applause started, so the morons won't be heard. As for not knowing Bobby Shearer personally, many at cenotaphs on Sunday didn't know people who had died, but they still showed their respect.

 

In my book, having a good long life, pretty much average life expectancy, punctuated by being a top class footballer in your younger days, is good cause to celebrate. However, a young man dying violently for his country has far more reason to be mourned and remembered solemnly. When it comes to the cenotaph, you don't need to know the men to feel the tragedy.

 

With Bobby Shearer there is no real tragedy to feel unless you know him and will personally miss him. It's all about his footballing days and they weren't cut short by death.

 

I find it hard to believe anyone could relate the two cases and to me it disrespectfully waters down the memory of why the young soldiers died, as it categorises them as just an every day death rather than a very tragic and poignant one.

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In my book, having a good long life, pretty much average life expectancy, punctuated by being a top class footballer in your younger days, is good cause to celebrate. However, a young man dying violently for his country has far more reason to be mourned and remembered solemnly. When it comes to the cenotaph, you don't need to know the men to feel the tragedy.

 

With Bobby Shearer there is no real tragedy to feel unless you know him and will personally miss him. It's all about his footballing days and they weren't cut short by death.

 

I find it hard to believe anyone could relate the two cases and to me it disrespectfully waters down the memory of why the young soldiers died, as it categorises them as just an every day death rather than a very tragic and poignant one.

 

I'm relating the two cases, because when the one's from the East End couldn't have their minutes applause, they were found out.

The minutes silence was cancelled, why should we follow in their footsteps, unless you think we are as bad of course.

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In my book, having a good long life, pretty much average life expectancy, punctuated by being a top class footballer in your younger days, is good cause to celebrate. However, a young man dying violently for his country has far more reason to be mourned and remembered solemnly. When it comes to the cenotaph, you don't need to know the men to feel the tragedy.

 

With Bobby Shearer there is no real tragedy to feel unless you know him and will personally miss him. It's all about his footballing days and they weren't cut short by death.

 

I find it hard to believe anyone could relate the two cases and to me it disrespectfully waters down the memory of why the young soldiers died, as it categorises them as just an every day death rather than a very tragic and poignant one.

 

Don't be so self righteous mate, obviously we show our respects in different ways.

I'll do it the old Presbyterian way with silence, you follow who you will.

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I find it hard to believe anyone could relate the two cases and to me it disrespectfully waters down the memory of why the young soldiers died, as it categorises them as just an every day death rather than a very tragic and poignant one.

 

a minute's silence is (was?) the footballing equivilant of "showing your respect", regardless if its a member of the royal family, the pope, september 11 or a legend passing away. the issue is not whether one of these is more tragic or not, but whether we should be forced to pay our respects in a new way just because you (or anyone) think(s) its more suitable.

 

it may be more suitable, for the reasons you have argued - but we needn't accept your initial premise that there should be different sorts of responses to different sorts of events. you may say there should be, others may say "this is what we do to show our respect".

 

in other words, your argument is like this:

 

1. different sorts of respect are appropriate for different sorts of event

2. a silence is more befitting a tragedy, a clap is more befitting the timely death of an entertainer

therefore

3. bobby shearer (an entertainer) should be clapped

 

we can logically accept that 3 follows 2, but we needn't accept 1.

 

it can be equally argued

 

1. a minute's silence is how respect is paid at football matches

therefore

3. bobby shearer should have a silence

 

the problem isnt the logic of your argument, but the view you have as to what "should" be done.

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Guest SHANKILL_LOYAL
Best's comments on live TV when asked what he would be doing if he hadn't made it as a footballer he replied ''I would probably be throwing stones at Catholics'' would also have ensured a warm round of catcalls and hate from the Gargoyles from the Beast End .

 

 

and the fact that he was a member of the Loyal Orange Lodge :thup:

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a minute's silence is (was?) the footballing equivilant of "showing your respect", regardless if its a member of the royal family, the pope, september 11 or a legend passing away. the issue is not whether one of these is more tragic or not,but whether we should be forced to pay our respects in a new way just because you (or anyone) think(s) its more suitable.

 

it may be more suitable, for the reasons you have argued - but we needn't accept your initial premise that there should be different sorts of responses to different sorts of events. you may say there should be, others may say "this is what we do to show our respect".

 

in other words, your argument is like this:

 

1. different sorts of respect are appropriate for different sorts of event

2. a silence is more befitting a tragedy, a clap is more befitting the timely death of an entertainer

therefore

3. bobby shearer (an entertainer) should be clapped

 

we can logically accept that 3 follows 2, but we needn't accept 1.

 

it can be equally argued

 

1. a minute's silence is how respect is paid at football matches

therefore

3. bobby shearer should have a silence

 

the problem isnt the logic of your argument, but the view you have as to what "should" be done.

 

a minute's silence is (was?) the footballing equivilant of "showing your respect",

 

They used to play football with a pigs bladder and heavy leather boots.

Hey things change in life.

 

but whether we should be forced to pay our respects in a new way just because you (or anyone) think(s) its more suitable

 

Did his family not request it, should they have their wishes changed just because you (or anyone) think(s) its more suitable.

1. different sorts of respect are appropriate for different sorts of event

 

Yes why not? In fact every person is different and will possibly have his own wishes on how his burial\cremation is carried out.

 

2. a silence is more befitting a tragedy, a clap is more befitting the timely death of an entertainer

 

Personally i think it is, as they spend their whole life trying to get applause, why should it be any different in death? I still believe it should be his\hers own or his\hers families choice.

 

3. bobby shearer (an entertainer) should be clapped

 

If his family chose that tribute then yes. Please don't bring his families intelligence into debate by saying they were manipulated from other sources.

 

1. a minute's silence is how respect is paid at football matches

therefore

3. bobby shearer should have a silence

 

 

That is your choice barry his family obviously think different.

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If his family chose that tribute then yes. Please don't bring his families intelligence into debate by saying they were manipulated from other sources.

 

That is your choice barry his family obviously think different.

 

my argument wasn't really about the actual circumstances - but about calscot's line of thinking. after his family said it there was simply no choice, i agree (though i dont think its calling his family's intelligence into question to say that something along the lines of the club phoning and saying "is it ok if we do a clap instead of a silence? and they said 'yes', which turned into 'the family want it').

 

i was replying to calscot's argument that it was (in every case) more appropriate to clap entertainers than have a minute's silence. i was just showing thats not necessarily true. and that those who prefer a minute's silence aren't wrong to prefer it.

 

Personally i think it is, as they spend their whole life trying to get applause, why should it be any different in death? I still believe it should be his\hers own or his\hers families choice.

 

i know thats what you (and calscot, and a lot of other people) personally think. good for you all, there's a good argument for it as i said. all i was saying that just because we agree "that they spend their whole lives getting applause" it doesn't necessarily follow that we should applause for a minute. its one possible alternative, certainly, but not the only one.

 

that aside, i wonder if the family of the next tragedy will be asked? i'm willing to bet that the ibrox high heid yins wanted this in place, and now that a precedent has been set, there will be no further consultation. we'll see if i'm wrong.

 

1. a minute's silence is how respect is paid at football matches

therefore

3. bobby shearer should have a silence

 

 

That is your choice barry his family obviously think different.

 

that was my point. calscot was trying to convince someone that his choice was more appropriate, my reply was showing why it was valid to disagree - not espousing one particular way or the other (i'm personally not overly fussed, though tend towards silences).

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my argument wasn't really about the actual circumstances - but about calscot's line of thinking. after his family said it there was simply no choice, i agree (though i dont think its calling his family's intelligence into question to say that something along the lines of the club phoning and saying "is it ok if we do a clap instead of a silence? and they said 'yes', which turned into 'the family want it').

 

i was replying to calscot's argument that it was (in every case) more appropriate to clap entertainers than have a minute's silence. i was just showing thats not necessarily true. and that those who prefer a minute's silence aren't wrong to prefer it.

 

 

 

i know thats what you (and calscot, and a lot of other people) personally think. good for you all, there's a good argument for it as i said. all i was saying that just because we agree "that they spend their whole lives getting applause" it doesn't necessarily follow that we should applause for a minute. its one possible alternative, certainly, but not the only one.

 

that aside, i wonder if the family of the next tragedy will be asked? i'm willing to bet that the ibrox high heid yins wanted this in place, and now that a precedent has been set, there will be no further consultation. we'll see if i'm wrong.

 

 

 

that was my point. calscot was trying to convince someone that his choice was more appropriate, my reply was showing why it was valid to disagree - not espousing one particular way or the other (i'm personally not overly fussed, though tend towards silences).

 

 

I agree there should always be options but as i said before because something is classed as a tradition it does not mean we have to stick to it whatever.

If i have a funeral in Glasgow i always have trouble with my family because i am used to Dutch funerals now, and that means just going in casual wear such as Denims. That is the liberal way here. Should i buy a 200 pound suit for the few times i will wear it, just because it is tradition? I won't!

I have agreed to wear dress trowsers a shirt and black tie.

At most Dutch funerals the persons favourite pop songs are played instead of hyms, which i would much prefer. I have nothing with hyms but respect people who do want them.

I think the thing to do is put your own wishes on paper before you die and then the funeral or in this case hand clap or silence will be your\their own choice.

 

Rangers probably have set a precedent but unfortunatly the ignorance of a few idiot supporters have probably brought it on them. It is not nice for the family to hear these idiots break the silence.

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I agree there should always be options but as i said before because something is classed as a tradition it does not mean we have to stick to it whatever.

 

yeah, but it also doesn't mean that just because we can change, we should. there's arguments on both sides, is my point.

 

Rangers probably have set a precedent but unfortunatly the ignorance of a few idiot supporters have probably brought it on them. It is not nice for the family to hear these idiots break the silence.

 

this is what annoys me. i've never been to a minute's silence at ibrox that hasn't been perfectly observed. we get enough of a bad press from the media without people like you, rangers fans, falsely believing that there are idiots at ibrox who spoil the minutes silences for the family.

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