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Guest lisburnranger
I have some comments and questions but it's late so I'll start with two:

 

Why use an English firm of solicitors whose furthest north office is in the fair city of Manchester and who have been widely and roundly criticised throughout the Trust movement in Scotland (including members of the current Council and particularly by the current Chair of Supporters Direct Scotland) for their inability to provide Scottish legal advice.

 

Why were Cobbetts not at the meeting today?

 

Of course, I know the answers to both these questions but I'll let you all have some guesses first.

 

This is just a hunch but -

 

http://www.supporters-direct.org/?offer=cobbetts-legal

 

Cobbetts are the recognised experts in law relating to supporters trusts and co-operatives. Having developed the original model rules for Supporters Direct, their association with the trust movement makes them the natural choice as our legal partner.

 

They have also acted for trusts purchasing shares at the club, including acting the Trust at Stockport County in their takeover negoatiations, and resolving governance issues at the club and within the trust and have a unique understanding of the sporting environment in which trusts operate and the internal issues that affect trusts from time to time.

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Correct me if I'm wrong here gents.

 

I thought this was more to do with people that can't afford to buy the £500+ shares. So the RST offer them the opportunity to buy into at a far lower rate therefore allowing Bears to own part of their club?

 

I doubt many will buy any more than the £125 share, these a more symbolic shares to hang above the fire rather than An investment to make money or get a seat on the board. They'll make nice presents, they'll be passed down through generations and all that.

 

People are looking far too deep into this.

 

Another point is people in general don't have a clue how stocks and shares work, I have shares in a few companies but have no idea how it works, I give cash to a friend and he do it for me.

 

People can be scared of banks too, so being able to give the RST the cash to get their share may well seem like a far easier option than sitting down with a broker in a bank that may try and manipulate you into doing something else

 

Just my simple view on it

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Nice sales pitch. Why does it have to be a success? What are all the sensible reasons for fans doing it now?

 

Sorry for the delay in coming back to you - wasn't online last night.

 

No sales pitch involved here - I'm not a member of the Trust or the scheme (yet).

 

I'd suggest the IPO being a success is sensible because it will bring in new money to the club and help investment on a variety of fronts. Moreover, doing this via the Trust model improves our representative status somewhat.

 

Obviously, we're dependent on an accurate and in-depth IPO prospectus to help us judge the club's intentions for the cash. For example, I wouldn't want my money going to some faceless investor but I would like it to go to a re-development of Edmiston House for example.

 

I'm as dubious about Green (and Zeus) as the next man but at some point we need to get off the fence and decide if we want our club to move forward under our own steam or whether we continue to stand back and let others do the hard work for us.

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Guest Bluepeter9

I hope the IPO is a sucess and I am investing direct.

Its a shame but for me the RST is a busted flush and I would not put any cash in that direction.

Its a great concept of block buying, but in my mind there are far to many questions on how that fan block will be controlled for me to participate as a part of a collective.

Just a FYI: fans can get together as a group (max 20) and start a share club (Legal entity inUK law) - it takes a wee bit of management to set up, but if the £500 is the barrier and you want to lower it a share club may help you, your mates,supporters groups etc.

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Guest Bears R Us
There are murky tie ins in people's heads like I said, there's yet to be one piece of solid proper evidence of such things and I tend to wait for that before I start accusing people of crookery. Communication with Whyte is a total non-story since that was needed for his shares. I'm not convinced at all a set of accounts would put conspiracy buffs mind's at rest, then it would just be a long con or something along of the lines 'well we should be making a profit!'

 

It's not really an unknown, it's a share issue, tonnes of football clubs have had them and a successful one was a key part of Celtic's survival in the 90s. I said wait and see in terms of the prospectus, you're pretty much writing it off before anyone has seen the damned thing.

 

Just because something isn't needed to stay afloat doesn't mean it wouldn't be very good and very useful to have it does it? Someone can be perfectly financially secure and have plenty of luxuries but if they won 20 odd million in the lottery they're hardly going to say no thanks are they? Besides you're over simplifying matters to the extreme by saying our wage bill is this, our season tickets are that so why do we need anything else. There's plenty of issues like running costs, a high number of other staff to consider as well as the plans for the likes of Edmiston House. And once we're in Division 1 on the verge of a top flight return (not that far away unless Ally somehow fails to win the promotions) they'll be plenty of pressure to invest in the playing squad so we can be challenging for the title and Europe again.

 

You sound a bit like you want it to fail, by your response to Frankie's statement. It's important for it to succeed simply because why would be want it to flop? It's 20 million into the club and a step towards the much desired fan voice and perhaps ownership. Important doesn't have to mean that it's a cast iron requirement or a necessity, but it's obvious to anyone that money is needed if we want to experience nights again like the one at Savile row on Wednesday. Money in the bank will be very much useful for that.

 

This whole 'we' thing is my main issue with how you've been going on. It's very much an individual thing, unlike season tickets you aren't buying to go and see football matches, it's an investment that you may or may not see something back for but first and foremost it is emotional. There's a whole bunch of things like personal circumstances to be considered, whether somebody believes it's worth it or indeed if trust issues are holding them back too much like they clearly are for you.

 

But there's really no need to try and force your views upon everyone else, people don't need to be mollycoddled into their decisions. You've clearly made your mind up already, that's fair enough, but I personally would like to see the club gain 20 million so I hope enough people decide differently (i'm not even sure of my own situation yet). All I would preach is that people look at the prospectus and draw their own conclusions through careful thought instead of getting caught up in conspiracy theories and jumping straight to the negative.

 

Green is just trying to move the club forward, we may be a third division club this second but you don't think he'll be under pressure to get us challenging Celtic for the title as soon as we're back in the top flight? He's giving fans an opportunity to buy in as he said he would from the start, he's not tried to portray it that the club is under any threat if the share issue isn't successful and as I seem to keep repeating nobody is being forced into anything. Again there's no evidence that Green did anything other than complete a purchase in good faith, no idea if he's grateful but I for one am grateful the club was saved and will remain so until someone gives proper reason to think otherwise.

 

I agree with this post 100%, I would like to have been able to write it, but I am not that good with words.

 

Reading DT's posts it does seem he would be happy for the share issue to fail and I cannot see why a supporter of our club would want that.

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There are murky tie ins in people's heads like I said, there's yet to be one piece of solid proper evidence of such things and I tend to wait for that before I start accusing people of crookery. Communication with Whyte is a total non-story since that was needed for his shares. I'm not convinced at all a set of accounts would put conspiracy buffs mind's at rest, then it would just be a long con or something along of the lines 'well we should be making a profit!'

 

It's not really an unknown, it's a share issue, tonnes of football clubs have had them and a successful one was a key part of Celtic's survival in the 90s. I said wait and see in terms of the prospectus, you're pretty much writing it off before anyone has seen the damned thing.

 

Just because something isn't needed to stay afloat doesn't mean it wouldn't be very good and very useful to have it does it? Someone can be perfectly financially secure and have plenty of luxuries but if they won 20 odd million in the lottery they're hardly going to say no thanks are they? Besides you're over simplifying matters to the extreme by saying our wage bill is this, our season tickets are that so why do we need anything else. There's plenty of issues like running costs, a high number of other staff to consider as well as the plans for the likes of Edmiston House. And once we're in Division 1 on the verge of a top flight return (not that far away unless Ally somehow fails to win the promotions) they'll be plenty of pressure to invest in the playing squad so we can be challenging for the title and Europe again.

 

You sound a bit like you want it to fail, by your response to Frankie's statement. It's important for it to succeed simply because why would be want it to flop? It's 20 million into the club and a step towards the much desired fan voice and perhaps ownership. Important doesn't have to mean that it's a cast iron requirement or a necessity, but it's obvious to anyone that money is needed if we want to experience nights again like the one at Savile row on Wednesday. Money in the bank will be very much useful for that.

 

This whole 'we' thing is my main issue with how you've been going on. It's very much an individual thing, unlike season tickets you aren't buying to go and see football matches, it's an investment that you may or may not see something back for but first and foremost it is emotional. There's a whole bunch of things like personal circumstances to be considered, whether somebody believes it's worth it or indeed if trust issues are holding them back too much like they clearly are for you.

 

But there's really no need to try and force your views upon everyone else, people don't need to be mollycoddled into their decisions. You've clearly made your mind up already, that's fair enough, but I personally would like to see the club gain 20 million so I hope enough people decide differently (i'm not even sure of my own situation yet). All I would preach is that people look at the prospectus and draw their own conclusions through careful thought instead of getting caught up in conspiracy theories and jumping straight to the negative.

 

Green is just trying to move the club forward, we may be a third division club this second but you don't think he'll be under pressure to get us challenging Celtic for the title as soon as we're back in the top flight? He's giving fans an opportunity to buy in as he said he would from the start, he's not tried to portray it that the club is under any threat if the share issue isn't successful and as I seem to keep repeating nobody is being forced into anything. Again there's no evidence that Green did anything other than complete a purchase in good faith, no idea if he's grateful but I for one am grateful the club was saved and will remain so until someone gives proper reason to think otherwise.

 

the first set of accounts really will reveal much mate(either way). we are probably a year at least away from those unfortunately.

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Sorry for the delay in coming back to you - wasn't online last night.

 

No sales pitch involved here - I'm not a member of the Trust or the scheme (yet).

 

I'd suggest the IPO being a success is sensible because it will bring in new money to the club and help investment on a variety of fronts. Moreover, doing this via the Trust model improves our representative status somewhat.

 

Obviously, we're dependent on an accurate and in-depth IPO prospectus to help us judge the club's intentions for the cash. For example, I wouldn't want my money going to some faceless investor but I would like it to go to a re-development of Edmiston House for example.

 

I'm as dubious about Green (and Zeus) as the next man but at some point we need to get off the fence and decide if we want our club to move forward under our own steam or whether we continue to stand back and let others do the hard work for us.

 

Fair enough Frankie, thanks for coming back to it. I simply asked what the sensible reasons are for having this share issue now.

 

edit: from a supporter's viewpoint, not CG.

Edited by Dragonfly Trumpeter
clarification
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I agree with this post 100%, I would like to have been able to write it, but I am not that good with words.

 

Reading DT's posts it does seem he would be happy for the share issue to fail and I cannot see why a supporter of our club would want that.

 

You have managed to contradict yourself totally, well done. Mind you, you did suggest you can read but not write. Just to clarify, I am a supporter of Rangers FC, and I hope the IPO is a raging success. I do not hope it fails. Maybe you can tell me what would constitute failure of the IPO ?

 

My bad for thinking we do not need it just now, that the haste of it is extremely questionable at best and there are no sound reasons for backing Mr Green at the moment. The prospectus will need to be stunning. Charles Green wants our cash by Christmas, whatever happens. I am sorry that that worries me.

 

Maybe I should be comforted by the fact that the RST, who a few weeks ago demanded we do not buy tickets and give Green no money, are his staunchest allies. Or maybe Leggo, who has now decided Green is no snake oil salesman after all.

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Fair enough Frankie, thanks for coming back to it. I simply asked what the sensible reasons are for having this share issue now.

 

edit: from a supporter's viewpoint, not CG.

 

I'd certainly agree that the timing is worthy of debate.

 

I guess if Zeus feel they can raise the money quickly (and I believe they think they have strong institutional investors ready) then why delay?

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