The unacceptable face of Scotland

[calscot 0]

Afghan heroin production has risen 40% in the period since the US and UK have been on the ground. Street price has never been lower and quality has never been higher.

 

#conspiracyloyal

 

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/10/14066.html

 

Not sure if I get what that link is all about. The only conclusion I can glean from them are that there are poppy fields and soldiers walk through them while out on patrol. No evidence that the two are connected in any way. What are they supposed to be doing - dropping Agent Orange on them?

[calscot 0]

Well, of course it seems similar But that's only because you've kept the question syntax and simply replaced "The Taliban" for "the IRA".

It's the answer that's very, very different.

 

The reason I gave it is because I see the answers as very similar. It's a fight against terrorism and attempting to bring a strong, democratic government to a province (which most of the indigenous people seem to want), which if successful, should reduce the number of terrorist attacks on our country and peace to the region in question. That's part of it anyway.

 

Like I said, you might disagree with it and have conjecture that there are deeper and less noble motives (and I probably agree there, to an extent), but that doesn't excuse you from pleading ignorance of the answers. The reason no-one answers you is that they are so obvious that the question appears loaded and most don't want to get into a conspiracy theory debate, as the burden of proof is ONLY EVER on the non-conspiracy point of view. Conspiracy theory is all about doubts, which is relatively easy to conjure up.

 

It's a very complex issue.

[Zappa 0]

Really? I haven't been able to find the reason we're in Afghanistan from Google, or from HMG or, now, even from Gersnet.

 

Ach, well, i'll keep looking - no doubt somebody will bring me up to speed sometime.

 

I don't believe there's a single answer to the question. It's a far more complex situation than the general public are led to believe and we're seldom told the truth about the geopolitical reasons for invading other countries and going to war.

 

In the case of Afghanistan, we've been involved in battling for control of that country for almost 300 years, perhaps longer as it no doubt goes back even further than the the first Anglo-Afghan war of the early 19th century, but some of the reasons for wanting to control it will have changed over the centuries. Still though, the point remains as it did centuries ago, that controlling Afghanistan is extremely important in the wider geopolitical war games in the middle east where many countries want a piece of the pie.

 

In terms of current reasons, Juancornetto rightly mentions heroin which obviously has a history of being hugely important and valuable to the pharmaceutical industry, which just happens to be one of the most politically powerful of ALL industries in recent decades. Controlling and safe-guarding the cultivation and processing of poppies and their by-products is just one reason for being in Afghanistan though and it's not the biggest reason by any means.

 

Traditionally (even if you go back as far as the East India Company and the first Anglo-Afghan war) the battle for Afghanistan has been about fighting for the control of trade routes (see: Silk Road) and while the products being traded and transported have changed over the centuries, that fundamental reason has not.

 

In modern times it's all about getting oil & natural gas taken out of the Caspian Sea down from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to Pakistan and India, thus completely bypassing the Russian and Iranian oil & gas monopoly of the Caspian resources. If anyone wants to google that subject for a bit of light reading try searching for 'Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline' or 'Afghan oil pipeline' and you'll find plenty of factual information.

[Juancornetto 1]

Not sure if I get what that link is all about. The only conclusion I can glean from them are that there are poppy fields and soldiers walk through them while out on patrol. No evidence that the two are connected in any way. What are they supposed to be doing - dropping Agent Orange on them?

 

Of course they are just pictures of soldiers in and around poppy fields but they are more for illustration purposes. High ranking US military personnel have admitted that their orders include protecting Afghan poppy crops from falling into the hands of the Taliban (who control 90+% of the heroin trade). The justification is that the crop is all the locals have got to keep them from absolute reliance on the Taliban and/or NATO aid.

 

The global drug trade is estimated to be worth more than $100Bn per year, major financial institutions rely on the dirty cash cleaning revenue and it keeps tens of thousands of law enforcement people in the US and around the world in jobs. The fastest growing industry in the US is now privately operated prisons, many of which count Senators, ex White House advisers and politicians on their boards.

 

In 40 years of the "War on Drugs" the supply has never been more abundant, the street / wholesale price has never been lower and the profits from criminalisation of drug addicts has never been higher.

 

Add in Oil & Energy trade routes and you have a massively lucrative and desirable region to control.

[Zappa 0]

Add in Oil & Energy trade routes and you have a massively lucrative and desirable region to control.

 

Then add in the simple military strategies involved in having a large presence of armed forces there right next to Iran. There's lots of pieces to the puzzle and one of them which has been ongoing for decades is stopping Iran from becoming any more of a super power than it already is, hence all the noise about their nuclear power plants and the subsequent threat of weapon capabilities.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Zappa
clarification of point

[The Real PapaBear 0]

Turns out the answer to the question was to be found on Gersnet after all

[The Real PapaBear 0]

The reason I gave it is because I see the answers as very similar. It's a fight against terrorism and attempting to bring a strong, democratic government to a province (which most of the indigenous people seem to want), which if successful, should reduce the number of terrorist attacks on our country and peace to the region in question. That's part of it anyway.

 

Couple of questions for you, mate:

1. Before we attacked and invaded Afghanistan, how many terrorist attacks were there by Afghanis, the Taliban or Al Queda on our country and how many attacks have there been since we invaded?

2. Why do you think that Afghanis want western style democracy - a means of government totally alien to their culture?

3. If you describe the Taliban as a terroist organisation, what criteria would an organisation have to meet before you would describe it as a resistance movement fighting an occupying power?

 

 

most don't want to get into a conspiracy theory debate, as the burden of proof is ONLY EVER on the non-conspiracy point of view. Conspiracy theory is all about doubts, which is relatively easy to conjure up.

 

Oh, quite the reverse. The burdon of proof is always on those who contest the official line. The official line is the one pumped out by the MSM, the politicos, the spin doctors and the vested interests - they don't have to prove anything since they control the media.

 

It's a very complex issue.

Indeed, although I find that Zappa and Juan have done a great job of illuminating it.

[Gribz 743]

Couple of questions for you, mate:

1. Before we attacked and invaded Afghanistan, how many terrorist attacks were there by Afghanis, the Taliban or Al Queda on our country and how many attacks have there been since we invaded?

.

 

That was going to be my first line in reply to STB when I get the chance.

[simplythebest 0]

There's a wider responsibility. Now i'm not saying this is anywhere near the same thing, but Adolf Hitler never set foot in Britain for example, we had a duty to fight him though.

[andy steel 0]

But once you go down the road of deciding to intervene in countries where the current lot in power are people you disapprove of, you can't use Adolf as a contra...that's what he did!