Why entrust Rangers to people who don't share our values or dreams?

[Hildy 0]

Bluedell, the RST, the Association and the Assembly have cooperated with each other for quite some time, but it doesn't stop people wondering why there are three different groups.

 

As it happens, they each have different functions, but it doesn't stop people wanting them to merge.

 

When it gets to singing sections, though, and two groups need to set themselves apart from one another, even if they still cooperate, it does tend to lend credence to the theory that the Rangers support is splintered and dysfunctional.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

I personally will NOT join in the RST scheme, partly because they have not convinced me over the years despite being a member for a while, but mostly because I would have to pay for membership, I don't see how I actually own any shares, I would have little influence on how my money would be used, and I've no idea how I would get any money back if I decide to leave.

 

I think there many people who feel the same and so why stop them doing something different that suits them better but still helps towards the goal?

 

My proposal wasn't for a "scheme" per se, and whoever is not interested in it then makes absolutely no difference to it or me.

 

I just thought it was an idea that could appeal to a lot of people who want to actually own some shares in the club for sentimental value, to help the club get into the ownership of the fans and actually to have a say in how the voting power of the shares are used.

 

The points are that after buying them, they are yours until you sell them or they become worthless, no-one can take them away. You could easily lose money but you may also accrue value in them if the price goes up, or they might stay around the same, which gives you the option of cashing them in if you're in a tight spot. You don't have to keep paying to use them and you can easily remove your proxy at any time if you don't like the way it is being used. You don't have to worry about another body's solvency or other factors either.

 

Basically it's just very simple. All you have to do is buy as many shares as you like and proxy them to whoever you like, if they are able to use it. That's it. You are fully in control of your investment.

 

It's about getting lots of independent fan shareholders together to wield some power. If there are 50 of these that combined are big enough to influence the running of the club then it's better than one that isn't.

 

I think I'm probably going to buy some shares anyway so it doesn't make much difference to me.

 

I've been a member of RST and at no time felt part of it, or felt I had any influence. I do feel that on here. I certainly wouldn't proxy my shares to them unless there is some large change in my perception of it as an organisation.

 

When you force everyone into the choice of one Marmite scheme then you're chances of success are low. People like freedom of choice, to have control of their investment and to have some voice for their hard earned money.

 

I think this is a decent idea that may well be worth exploring. For what it's worth, I would suggest it is set at a level that everyone who wants and can afford to do so, would be prepared to contribute.

 

The £50 sounds fine to me; but it might need to be even less, say £20 or £25 to encourage as many as possible to join. What about the price of a ticket for one match, which would be even less. The issue then would be that the dealing cost would render it not cost effective. So it might need to be a block purhcase but that then leads to other issues because they would have to be in one name. So on balance it has to be high enough to make it cost effective for an individual to buy and absord the dealing costs and low enough to be affordable for as many as possible and still be cost effective.

 

So it is probably in the £50-£100 range.

 

I would strongly suggest that it is set at one price for all or perhaps better a set number of shares regardless of price because then there is no issue about anyone who owns more shares wanting more votes etc. 250 shares might work, at today's 26.5p that would be £66.25 + costs. The number of shares could be adjusted in future years as the price rose or fell to keep it affordable.

[Zappa 0]

I agree, but when you buy shares in a football club, you spend an amount you can afford to fully lose. It's not about making money, it's a sentimental investment. I'm talking around the 100-200 pound mark. Or you could have a membership scheme of say 50 quid which means you are guaranteed to lose it all immediately and then again every single year.

 

I really can't see the point in fans buying up small numbers of shares in the market at the moment Cal because not only is it a risky investment, but it wouldn't even be the same type of emotional investment as buying some shares in a second share issue where most of the money would at least be going into the Club.

 

Obviously it's a different kettle of fish for large investors, but for fans as small investors the prudent approach at the moment would probably be to hold off for a second share issue or alternatively (and since you mentioned it), if the Club were to launch a membership scheme to raise funds, then that would be a meaningful way to put some extra cash into the Club.

 

There's even other ways to put some cash into the Club at the moment for those who can afford it, such as buying a quarter season ticket even if you already have a ST or live abroad and at least it would be helping the club, but buying say 500 to 1000 shares in the market isn't helping the club at all just now at a time when it's running out of cash.

[Hildy 0]

Zappa, any club-backed 'membership' scheme will make you a member of what exactly?

 

A scheme like this will be a type of loyalty project where you receive discounts on merchandise for effectively gifting money to the club.

 

There might be some kind of representation attached to make it look authentic, but it will be more scam than scheme. The club like the idea because it's money for nothing.

 

We want fans to own shares to win control of the company. When the club is in the hands of the support, it will no longer divert money into the pockets of people who don't deserve it and who haven't earned it. £200,000 bonuses for winning the 4th division? Truly unbelievable and beyond farce.

 

Any regime that does that and then decides to operate a 'membership' scheme should be trusted as far is it can be thrown.

 

We're throwing good money after bad.

 

We need the club to belong to us - then we can be proper members of Rangers instead of pretend ones.

[andy steel 0]

Is the anti-RST feeling that strong, really?

 

Without wishing to point fingers at anyone (I really have no idea who did what to whom at all) it seems to be the same people going over the same ground whenever fights crop about about the RST; and it doesn't seem like more than about a dozen people, all of whom plainly feel very strongly about things.

 

But does that translate into a wider antipathy amongst the support?

[Hildy 0]

Andy, there are people who don't like the RST for a variety of reasons, including personal ones.

 

Not everyone in the organisation will have liked one another over the years. With around 70 board members since it started, this is inevitable. In this respect, it resembles a political party where personal enmity is not uncommon - but people still tend to be mature and balanced enough in political parties to work for the common good rather than taking the huff.

 

As a support, we expect harmony on all things in our fan groups, which of course is impossible. When there is a fallout, it takes forever for the smoke to clear. Some people are still going over an event that happened years ago and using it to cast the RST in a bad light. In truth, I think they relish doing so.

 

On the other hand, we have Dave King, who may or may not have an association with Rangers at some point in the future, and his background is quite colourful. Some of those who point the finger at what they believe to be RST shortcomings - and I'm not pointing the finger at anyone specifically - will gladly gloss over any questions relating to his background.

 

Essentially, if King bought Rangers, few would be interested in dwelling on his past.

 

If he didn't, though, and he became an RST board member instead, it would no surprise if it suddenly became open season on him.

 

Many want a new Rangers monarch. They aren't interested in fans getting 'ideas above their station'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[andy steel 0]

Maybe, maybe. I don't know anyone so I can't tell what motives are. I just don't hear much 'I really hate the RST' outside of online chat.

 

'ideas above their station'? I think what is plainly irking you, and what you see as looking for someone to worship at the top, is more like people just wanting to see their team back to the way it was.

 

This may be down to a collective lumpen proletariat mentality, it may be down to personal vendettas, it may be jealousies or forelock tugging, or it may be that people have a shit load of hassles in their lives on a day to day basis and would quite like to go to the football and escape into another world for two hours of a Saturday.

 

I don't suppose being a fan owned club necessarily precludes the above but you have to remember that into every life the rain must fall...and usually pisses. I'd wager there are people who simply don't have the energy to take on another fight in their lives. If you're maybe in the 18-30 bracket, good luck to you. If you're older than that and can still find the wherewithall to fight the good fight as you see it, you're a very lucky man/woman.

 

It's just not on for some.

[Bluedell 5,329]

Is the anti-RST feeling that strong, really?

 

Without wishing to point fingers at anyone (I really have no idea who did what to whom at all) it seems to be the same people going over the same ground whenever fights crop about about the RST; and it doesn't seem like more than about a dozen people, all of whom plainly feel very strongly about things.

 

But does that translate into a wider antipathy amongst the support?

 

I'm afraid it does, Andy. There is a proportion of the support who think RST=MD=FF and therefore they won't touch it. This isn't the VB/RM guys I'm referring to, or the ex-board members that Hildy refers to but non-forum bears who I talk to at games, who don't get involved with all the forum politics crap. It's an image that has been long standing and will not change overnight.

 

Perhaps you haven't heard it because it doesn't come up in conversation and it's not high on your radar but I've talked to quite a few about it and stood outside Ibrox handing out leaflets and it definitely exists.

[Hildy 0]

Andy, of course people want to see the team competing at a high level again, but there is undoubtedly an element that dislikes fellow fans holding the club accountable and taking it to task.

 

'They are no' better fans than me' is the cry, which despite being perfectly true, holds the support back from having a club which is more transparent and less distant.

 

In essence, if you don't own Rangers, many fans think that you are not entitled to ask difficult questions of it.

 

Large swathes of the support are happy for the club to be under the unchallenged rule of someone like SDM - but when things go wrong, and they couldn't have gone more wrong in recent times, that's when questions get asked - and by then, it's too late.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[andy steel 0]

All right then, assuming you are correct, you've surely got to stop with the confrontational language.

 

Persuading people that essentially you are on their side and trying to deliver an even better Rangers won't be easy, but castigating them definitely won't do it! Maybe it will involve putting on a big grin and pretending to enjoy the company of people you could cheerfully strangle, maybe it will mean explaining the same thing over and over again, maybe it will mean banging your head off the wall over a period of years, might even mean buttering up people you can't stand - that's politics, and that's what this is.

 

Still don't think you'll have much chance even then, tbh.