Dr Waiton on Rangers, Free Speech and Sectarianism

[der Berliner 3,207]

The conflict in Ireland is the basis for modern-day tensions between Catholics and Protestants – although in Scotland this remained limited even at the height of the conflict. Today the conflict has no dynamic and religion is declining in importance which means there is no basis to sectarianism. ‘Sectarianism’, so called, is essentially a football rivalry and little else.

 

Very much so. The Yahoo-cohorts took it out of context and used it to their ends, and ONLY their ends. No backswinging pendulums et al.

 

You also say both Rangers and Celtic fans sing politically sectarian songs about the IRA and UVF, however, Celtic fans have journalists, politicians and academics supporting their right to sing about the IRA, but no-one for supporting UVF songs. Why is this?

I think this is largely because old fashioned ‘exclusive’ nationalism is now out of favour, while modern ‘cultural’ (or victim-based) nationalism is far more acceptable. See how being Scottish is easier to celebrate than being English – with the English portrayed as bullying, possible racists if they get their flag out, while the Scots are quaint kilt-wearing cultural cuties.

 

He is so very much spot on here.

 

Rangers fans have been targeted because their songs can be interpreted as being religiously sectarian. Rangers also have an old school form of British nationalism which does not fit with the cosmopolitan elites who run institutions today. This adds to the focus on them and their presumed bigoted, wife-beating fans. Now, however, Celtic fans can also be targeted for singing songs that have been seen as political – e.g. IRA songs. And it appears that the Scottish elites and police are keen to stop political offensiveness as much as any other kind.

 

Indeed. Regarding wife-beating: I still wait for some real figures on this domestic violance issue so drummed up for OF weekends. While it apparently does have peaks, they never ever actually gave the dates (and thus scores) of those OF games/weekends under scrutiny. It may very well be embarrassing for us, but could also help to kill the myth above.

Obviously, we all long the day when Scottish politics and police do indeed go after the terrorist-minded songs.

[bluebear54 0]

I agree with you SA. However, no matter how much fuss is kicked up, I don't see the OBaF Act being repealed. There may be a threat of amending it and we will need to be vigilant to make sure it is not returned to its original intention which was to be focused on us.

I mentioned on another thread that there is a real threat that corroboration will be done away with in Scots Law. That would have a huge impact on the policing of football supporters.

[aweebluesoandso 290]

It's unusual but nice to hear a academic who is neutral telling it as it was/is. The sectarian industry was wholly manufactured by Labour to criminalise and demonise one section and one section only of the white working class. That class of people was the Protestant and Rangers supporters community.

[BlueMazza 0]

Very much so. The Yahoo-cohorts took it out of context and used it to their ends, and ONLY their ends. No backswinging pendulums et al.

 

 

 

He is so very much spot on here.

 

 

 

Indeed. Regarding wife-beating: I still wait for some real figures on this domestic violance issue so drummed up for OF weekends. While it apparently does have peaks, they never ever actually gave the dates (and thus scores) of those OF games/weekends under scrutiny. It may very well be embarrassing for us, but could also help to kill the myth above.

Obviously, we all long the day when Scottish politics and police do indeed go after the terrorist-minded songs.

 

Here you go. http://sgo.sagepub.com/content/3/3/2158244013504207#T2

 

With regard to Old firm domestic violence.

 

It does happen trying to suggest it doesn't, derails efforts to reduce domestic violence.

 

 

I understand what Waiton is saying, but I don't agree with a fair bit of what he says.

[stewarty 1,876]

If FAC had released a cover of The Billy Boys, their motivations would be much more credible.

[The Real PapaBear 0]

It's unusual but nice to hear a academic who is neutral telling it as it was/is. The sectarian industry was wholly manufactured by Labour to criminalise and demonise one section and one section only of the white working class. That class of people was the Protestant and Rangers supporters community.

 

this character is anything but neutral - his is a libertarian agenda which, if you follow it for just a couple of steps, quickly shows itself for what it is and who is behind it. What sort of publications does he normally write for? Who funds those publications? He and his ilk don't give a rat's arse about the working class.

[The Real PapaBear 0]

Here you go. http://sgo.sagepub.com/content/3/3/2158244013504207#T2

 

With regard to Old firm domestic violence.

 

It does happen trying to suggest it doesn't, derails efforts to reduce domestic violence.

 

 

I understand what Waiton is saying, but I don't agree with a fair bit of what he says.

 

The silence of all of football on domestic violence - particularly Celtic and Rangers - has been nothing short of disgraceful.

[der Berliner 3,207]

Here you go. http://sgo.sagepub.com/content/3/3/2158244013504207#T2

 

With regard to Old firm domestic violence.

 

It does happen trying to suggest it doesn't, derails efforts to reduce domestic violence.

 

I understand what Waiton is saying, but I don't agree with a fair bit of what he says.

 

Just in case, what I was pointing at above was that when it is clearly Rangers that are at fault, the headlines will splash "Rangers" in large letters into the audience. If it is Celtic at fault, more often than not during the last decade or so, headlines will be about the "Old Firm". Which was also the case with nigh all reports I read so far on the issue.

 

In no way is domestic violence acceptable and it should be persecuted and punished no matter who commits it. Still, if they throw dirt at us, it should be blue dirt, not grey-green stuff. Hence, if they whip ups such clearly scientific texts, why not hand out the numbers as well? Not just to tell whether it is us or them who commit more, but also to point out that WE might have a real problem here. Something we could deal with too.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

I agree with you SA. However, no matter how much fuss is kicked up, I don't see the OBaF Act being repealed. There may be a threat of amending it and we will need to be vigilant to make sure it is not returned to its original intention which was to be focused on us.

I mentioned on another thread that there is a real threat that corroboration will be done away with in Scots Law. That would have a huge impact on the policing of football supporters.

 

There is absolutely no chance whatsoever of the OBA being repealed; and I am fairly certain that any amendments will seek to strengthen it in the light of all the cases that the Fiscals have lost.

[bluebear54 0]

There is absolutely no chance whatsoever of the OBA being repealed; and I am fairly certain that any amendments will seek to strengthen it in the light of all the cases that the Fiscals have lost.

 

I trust your optimism BH.

I'm aware that our friends across the city are already lobbying in this area.

Come the time there will be skewed press coverage, an avalanche of letters to the SG and the usual suspects will be wheeled out again to give academic credence to the party line.

I'm just saying we should be vigilant.

Just in case.