Ser Barristan Selmy 222 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Loyalty to anything or anyone should be conditional, otherwise you aren't showing loyalty you're demonstrating idiocy. Amen....... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 You seem to label supporters "fans" or "customers" arbitrarily and contrarily as long as it supports your argument against King and supporting clearly underhand manipulation by the board. But I really don't think you understand the power of the customer. There is more to it than paying for something and receiving goods or service. As shown previously, Starbucks felt the need to bow to customer pressure to pay tax they were entitled to avoid. That says that Starbucks customers can demand more than a cup of coffee for their money. I'm sure if all the customers of Starbucks coordinated, and in a scenario where Starbucks had season tickets and promised a review on the tax issue, that the customers would want to see the result of the tax review before buying the season ticket. It is the same with any analogy you care to use. When enough customers coordinate and put on the pressure, the boards of companies have to think about bending to their will or going bust. The difference with a football club, which I shouldn't have to explain, is that the "customers" care greatly about whether the business goes bust, which gives power back to the board. But when the board is clearly systematically abusing that power to take advantage of the loyalty of the "customers" then it's time for the "customers" to use the all the power they have. A season ticket is a type of loan in a sense no matter how you try to confuse that, and fans don't have to lend the money. They can easily give the club the same money but do so on a fortnightly basis - but here again, the club have stick to hand when it comes to their seats. Although there must be thousands with not such a good seat that may not care so much and be enough have an impact. And the danger to the board there is that without the financial commitment, the fans might be persuaded to do something else on many of the match days... I accept most of what you say in he first three paragraphs, Calscot; but I beg to differ on the last and I am certainly not trying to confuse the issue by saying that ST money is not a loan. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gunslinger 3,366 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Loan or not when you buy one you become a creditor of the company. Why not demand to become a secured creditor. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Re the status of ST sales. They are prepayments that the Club receives from its customers for future delivery of goods or services. So, while they may not be loans in the strictest sense of the word, they create a liability on the company's balance sheet and an obligation to the customer. Generally prepayments require a degree of trust that the company will be able and willing to honour that obligation. If that trust or certainty is absent, there are many ways in which risk can be mitigated. Involving a 3rd party, or requesting for some form of collateral and / or guarantee is perfectly normal in circumstances where that trust is absent. In fact, international trade finance depends upon it. Frankly I don't care about the precise start and finish dates of the 120 day review and the ST renewal process. Either through desperation or contrivance, the Board have created a situation where they are attempting to bring in as much ST cash as they can before their plans are made public and that seems to be contrary to what was agreed with Mr King. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I accept that ST money is "deferred income" for future delivery of goods or services that creates a liability on the balance sheet but I still do not think it is the same as a loan; it is a debt. I seem to recall that in the not too distant past much was made of the fact that a debt was not a loan! Would you not agree however, that the security requested is out of all proportion to the amount of that debt or loan? No question either that the principal issue is cashflow regardless of ST deadlines, reviews etc. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gunslinger 3,366 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I accept that ST money is "deferred income" for future delivery of goods or services that creates a liability on the balance sheet but I still do not think it is the same as a loan; it is a debt. I seem to recall that in the not too distant past much was made of the fact that a debt was not a loan! Would you not agree however, that the security requested is out of all proportion to the amount of that debt or loan? No question either that the principal issue is cashflow regardless of ST deadlines, reviews etc. If the debt is 5 million or 1 or 10p for that matter that's all the actual security you get. You don't get all the proceeds of sale. So I would say it's entirely commensurate 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 If the debt is 5 million or 1 or 10p for that matter that's all the actual security you get. You don't get all the proceeds of sale. So I would say it's entirely commensurate I am sorry but the first part of your comment is wrong, you do get the whole asset pledged as security; that's why it's not commensurate with the debt. You are right of course that you only get your debt satisfied but absent any other means of repayment, the entire asset would have to be sold; you can't sell Ibrox brick by brick. Even if you only owe a fraction of your original mortgage if you stop making the payments "your home is at risk". 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gunslinger 3,366 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 No you don't but absent any other means of repayment, the entire asset would have to be sold; you can't sell Ibrox brick by brick. ibrox was sold recently to green. This security will only solidify if it's sold again. Perhaps you just get your money back. Perhaps you get control of the admin. Perhaps you at least get to decide who buys ibrox. Perhaps the fans get to own it. Who knows but that's no reason not to demand security. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aweebluesoandso 290 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I just don't see this board capitulating to King, they must be laughing behind his back. I mean what's the worst King can do to them, Release another statement? No no and thrice no, even i'm getting bored to death now. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannochsidebear 2,304 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I think King was wrong with the timing of the announcement on Friday, and that he would have got a better response if he had waited until Sunday. In saying that, where is this business review we were promised? King is saying that Somers told him the review wont be out until after the ST deadline has passed, and that is therefore changing the goalposts from when King was assured the review would be out before fans had to decide where to put their ST money. From what we know now, there are going to be three camps of ST holders over the next few weeks. In one corner, there will be those that want to secure their preferred seat and dont care who owns us or what the board do. They will renew within the deadline. In the other corner, we will have those who will put their money into King's trust fund, despite King not giving any information regarding what he plans to do with the club. Will he live in Glasgow and run it himself, or appoint the Murrays or others to run it for him while he gets updates in SA? All we know is that he favours a re-capitalisation through a share issue, which he may or may not want to underwrite. And in the middle, will (IMO) be the majority of ST holders, who are waiting to see what happens and are ready to be swayed either way by a compelling argument. They want to renew, they would prefer their current seat, but realise that this board need to provide the transparancy and blueprint for the future of our club that will persuade them, or are waiting to see how successful the early weeks of the Trust Fund is, and perhaps hear more about King's plan for the club. Who is going to run it day-to-day? The new share issue? Both sides should see that there is a large number of ST holders ready to be won over by a positive argument and proof that they have what it takes to move the club forward. Up until now, all we seem to have seen is what they keep getting wrong. Badly worded statements, empty promises, threats and legal actions, Wonga loans, would all give some ST holders the notion that neither camp is deserving of the honour of occupying a position on the Board of Directors of our great institution. Unfortunately, the best of a bad lot is just the same options we have had at the club for the last decade. I want to see this 120 day review come out from the current board and tell us their strategy and plan for improvements in all areas of our club. They have had more than long enough to get their heads around it. I want King to come out and say what he would do if he was allowed to run the club. Who would make all the decisions? What is he going to do about all the under-performing areas of the club? The ST renewals have kicked all this off again, as both sides scramble for fans to back them as the true way forward. Now we as fans have a big decision to make. It would be nice to be able to do it with some manifestos from the two sides, instead of having to take a punt and go with the heart and hope for the best. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the wasp 0 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 it wouldn't remain at 50p a share. Every time you buy a share it pushes the price of the remaining shares up. Why is everybody having a hard time understanding this? Maybe we are not as smart as you think you are. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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