pete 2,494 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 I'm just trying to look at facts here rather than hyperbole. I'm not disputing we've spent too much money but it's simply not true to talk as if it's all gone into pockets I totally agree it has not all went into pockets that the running of the club does have to come off but because millions have been syphoned off the running costs are( which are also too high) are making us need loans at 30% from a leading shareholder. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster. 4,808 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 The club is owe the company circa £19m does it not? According to Mr.Green that doesn't count though,....he was always declaring that the club had no (external) debt. !!! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster. 4,808 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 The only debt the club might have at present is if it has drawn down on any part of the £1.5m facilities recently secured. BH, could you answer Forlan's question about the 19M please. You haven't gone into Charles Green mode have you, only wanting to speak about external debt ? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,329 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 According to Mr.Green that doesn't count though,....he was always declaring that the club had no (external) debt. !!! I'd agree with Green. It's not really relevant. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster. 4,808 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I'd agree with Green. It's not really relevant. At this point in time, I can understand that. However in an uncertain future, I think it something that we must bear in mind. More especially given the recent past and current direction at executive level. We have found to our cost that we cannot trust those in charge and their goal is to maximise their (and shareholder) returns. Not forgetting their duties as directors to RIFC PLC. If one day in the uncertain future TRFC were to exchange assets for debt in an internal asset transfer, would that change the panorama ? Thereafter TRFC could be sold (if approved by shareholders/ note potentially increased stakes if more shares are offered to current shareholders). I suppose if this or similar was a route that is being mapped out it might need the contingent liability lifted first but I'm not sure. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,329 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 At this point in time, I can understand that.However in an uncertain future, I think it something that we must bear in mind. More especially given the recent past and current direction at executive level. We have found to our cost that we cannot trust those in charge and their goal is to maximise their (and shareholder) returns. Not forgetting their duties as directors to RIFC PLC. If one day in the uncertain future TRFC were to exchange assets for debt in an internal asset transfer, would that change the panorama ? Thereafter TRFC could be sold (if approved by shareholders/ note potentially increased stakes if more shares are offered to current shareholders). I suppose if this or similar was a route that is being mapped out it might need the contingent liability lifted first but I'm not sure. They could have a corporate restructure anyway, even without the debt. There's lots of different possibilities, most of them relatively unlikely. Look at Celtic. they transferred their club from one company to another. I guess something like you suggest is possible, but are they really going to leave a quoted PLC with an only asset of a football stadium? The new owners of the club could do something clever like administration and get rid of the contract to hire the stadium and then they are left with a white elephant. I just don't see it, I think it's easier just to ignore the internal debt at this point. If they are going to shaft the club then they can do it easily in other ways without the debt, 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster. 4,808 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 They could have a corporate restructure anyway, even without the debt. There's lots of different possibilities, most of them relatively unlikely. Look at Celtic. they transferred their club from one company to another. I guess something like you suggest is possible, but are they really going to leave a quoted PLC with an only asset of a football stadium? The new owners of the club could do something clever like administration and get rid of the contract to hire the stadium and then they are left with a white elephant. I just don't see it, I think it's easier just to ignore the internal debt at this point. If they are going to shaft the club then they can do it easily in other ways without the debt, So you are saying that if TRFC (club) were sold with a signed X year lease on Ibrox, the club could rid themselves of said lease via an insolvency event ? There would be a real risk that an insolvency event together with leaving Ibrox would mean a large number of fans not coming back. But that would by hypothesing on hypotheticals !! If we accept that there are various ways for those calling the shots to skin a cat, that those who are in and around the executive board are in it for financial reasons, are experts in corporate 'fleecings', don't see a football club with 'emotion' and that they have given us good reason not to trust them..............................there is very good reason to be concerned. Solutions This is where it gets difficult and you start to worry about the future. Going back to those in and around the executive board (taking into account what I wrote in previous paragraph) then I'd imagine they'll very much have their claws into the business. In that they will have contingency plans for the various angles of attack that they might come under and none will end well, especially in the short-term. Obviously there is one easy route but it would appear that the price being asked for a controlling stake may be prohibitive, way above market value. The here and now is that if no-one is prepared to pay it then it can be discounted. I'm afraid I can only see pain ahead. The status quo is being sold by some as the 'safe or loyal route' but to me it is the road to footballing obscurity, constant uncertainty and an eventual 'bumpy end' with the pieces being picked up by supporters. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gunslinger 3,366 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 plus where would we play? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 BH, could you answer Forlan's question about the 19M please. You haven't gone into Charles Green mode have you, only wanting to speak about external debt ? Not sure why I have to answer for Rangers auditors but I would take the same view as BD, namely that it's an internal book figure and of no significant relevance to the overall financial situation of the Club. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 0 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 That's my own season ticket now renewed anyway 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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