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I don't. If you think the Orange Order is tolerant of RC's then there is no merit in continuing this discussion.

 

I am afraid you do have to be more specific. So far all you have given us are speculation and 'unnamed' sources. I think you need to separate the actions of official Orangemen from those actions of mindless supporters who attach themselves to parades etc.

What Rangersitis gave you in post #36 is part of the charge to an Orangeman. Did you actually read the quote?

There is a difference in resisting the rise and power of an organization (the Roman church) than being intolerant to a person.

In fact I would say that it is more likely that you and your 'unnamed' sources are the source of the intolerance. Surely by the very fact that the 'unnamed' source does not want the association of the Orange Order organization is in itself a bigoted act and especially for the reasons attributed to the unnamed source in the article, because those too are pure speculation?

I would defy you to quote an instance where the Orange Order as an organization has ever championed any action against an individual, because of the fact alone, that the individual is an RC.

I would direct your attention to a very good book by Ruth Dudley Edwards called 'The Faithful Tribe'. The author is a Southern Irish Roman catholic and she freely paints a portrait of the Loyal Institutions, after she had been given open access to these Institutions and their people. It may help to dispel some myths that have grown and been attributed to the Orange Order.

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How about you just answer the charge that your beloved OO are now aiding and abetting the Yes campaign by virtue of their decision to march on Edinburgh on the eve of the most important vote in Scotland and the UK's history instead of trying to divert the thread into an arguments over the semantics of the OO, their members and their raison d'etre.

 

Better Together are distancing themselves from the march and Yes are using their involvement as on 'own goal'.

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How about you just answer the charge that your beloved OO are now aiding and abetting the Yes campaign by virtue of their decision to march on Edinburgh on the eve of the most important vote in Scotland and the UK's history instead of trying to divert the thread into an arguments over the semantics of the OO, their members and their raison d'etre.

 

Better Together are distancing themselves from the march and Yes are using their involvement as on 'own goal'.

 

The Orange Order are marching legally and are in favour of the union. Your attack on them via the back door is all too transparent.

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No one on this thread (from what I can deduct) is denying their legality nor their right to walk wherever they so choose. This thread, however, was discussing the merits of such a decision and whether it would backfire such is the disdain that the organisation is viewed by the general Scottish populace.

 

My opinion on the OO is clear for all to see and I can speak so from a 50% Orange family, indeed my uncle was afforded a full orange procession through Bridgeton in 2009.

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No one on this thread (from what I can deduct) is denying their legality nor their right to walk wherever they so choose. This thread, however, was discussing the merits of such a decision and whether it would backfire such is the disdain that the organisation is viewed by the general Scottish populace.

 

My opinion on the OO is clear for all to see and I can speak so from a 50% Orange family, indeed my uncle was afforded a full orange procession through Bridgeton in 2009.

 

Your opinion is valid, of course. Your 'aiding and abetting' comment is agenda-driven nonsense though. Whatever way the vote goes, there will be no evidence whatsoever to show that the OO swung it - either way.

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I think the parade is a mistake for the reason given by Chibmark. It's not just because the OO is held in undeserved and manipulated disdain but any single demonstration by any one group immediately raises questions. For example if there were a parade of fishermen in favour of one side or another, farmers would instantly be suspicious. What's needed is a parade of fishermen, farmers and boilermakers and anybody else who doesn't want to be ruled by egg-throwing flag wavers.

 

(That last bit is hyperbole in case any Independence folk get precious about it)

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You're absolutely right, of course. While it is obviously impossible to count the Yes votes gained by this error there can be no doubt that there WILL be Yes votes gained. The decision to go ahead with this march shows a real self-delusional state of mind among the organisers. We must just hope there is no trouble on the day or it will be the own-goal to beat all own-goals.

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How about you just answer the charge that your beloved OO are now aiding and abetting the Yes campaign by virtue of their decision to march on Edinburgh on the eve of the most important vote in Scotland and the UK's history instead of trying to divert the thread into an arguments over the semantics of the OO, their members and their raison d'etre.

 

Better Together are distancing themselves from the march and Yes are using their involvement as on 'own goal'.

 

Rangersitis gave you facts in post #36 and you refused to answer them. I gave you expanded facts in post #41 and again you refuse to answer them. Having an uncle who had a funeral in Bridgeton does not make you an expert on the Orange Order, but rather your lamentation on the involvement of the Orange Order and your exhortation that they should not exercise their freely chosen and legal right to march in support of their pro-Union campaign, British Together, just sounds petty and bigoted.

No doubt the Orange Order have noted your views but have decided that they will continue with their parade because they feel that their legal and proper right to do so outweighs your speculative and specious objections. If you feel strongly enough about it, why don't you get together with any republican and RC fence-sitters and organize your own parade in protest to the involvement of the Orange Order parade in the pre-referendum voting activities. This would appear to be the entirely democratic way of doing things. In fact, you could invite along Scott7's suggestion of " fishermen, farmers and boilermakers and anybody else who doesn't want to be ruled by egg-throwing flag wavers." I imagine that would keep everyone happy.

As has been already explained, the Orange Order has a permit to have a parade and they are responsible for the people within that parade. They feel that they speak for the people within that parade and no one else. They are not attempting to canvass the support or vote of anyone outside of their organization, they are not denying the right of anyone to vote in any way they please. If people are impressed, or unimpressed, by their show of support for the Union then they are entitled to act in any way they please. The Orange Order are as entitled to make their views known as were the 'YES' campaign when they marched in 2012 and 2013 .

Is this parade of the Orange Order sectarian? By definition yes. Is it bigoted? Definitely NOT.

Now, a question for you. If, in a General election, should the various parties be more concerned with downplaying the other sides' message than championing their own message? Maybe you could do the same.

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You're absolutely right, of course. While it is obviously impossible to count the Yes votes gained by this error there can be no doubt that there WILL be Yes votes gained. The decision to go ahead with this march shows a real self-delusional state of mind among the organisers. We must just hope there is no trouble on the day or it will be the own-goal to beat all own-goals.

 

Surely that is the remit of the Police, to deal with any trouble? I assume you are implying that the trouble will arise from some kind of counter-demonstration from the egg-throwing support of the YES campaign?

How, in the name of the wee man, could the Orange Order be held responsible for the actions of anyone outwith the parade constraints? Surely if such actions were to occur as you envisage, they could be lain at the door of the YES campaign supporters?

Who then will be scoring an own goal?

 

Further, there is a myth being expounded and expanded upon in this thread, i.e. the Orange Order is a bigoted organization. I defy anyone to give me a recorded instance where the Orange Order, as an organization, has called for or supported a bigoted act. I am not talking about individual actions, but an organizational act.

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