craig 5,195 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Of course Advocaat has to take plenty blame. He spent almost £5m on Konterman and who knows what wages he was on. We also wasted loads of cash on the likes of Prodan, Guivarch, Kanchelskis, Flo, Ball etc. That's not to say I wasn't a big fan of Advocaat. He has to take huge credit for the brand of football he had us playing. But you cant get them all right SB. Advocaat was also responsible for Numan, van Bronckhorst, Mols. He had very decent signings too. As well as the rotten ones you mention. Even regarding the money he spent.... it is hard to say it was his fault IF it was the case that he just said "this is the guy I want" and left Bain to go do it. It wouldn't surprise me if our business was done that way, even if it is wrong. A manager should KNOW the transfer market and what a player is a) worth in the market and b) worth to your club (2 different things... a player may be worth more to you if you don't have someone for his position) and should inform those dealing in the transfers how much he believes the player to be worth. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if we didn't operate that way though ! He does take credit for the way we played - but lets not forget that with the money he was allowed to spend, and the quality of player he brought in, that he wasn't being asked to simply win the league - he was clearly being tasked to produce the goods in Europe - and whilst we played admirably on occasion under him..... we certainly were NOT successful in Europe under Advocaat. And he had no answer for O'Neill either. I didn't like the way O'Neill had his team playing but it was effective. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Barristan Selmy 222 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Advocaat wanted complete control over transfers. He fell out with Murray because Murray signed Colin Hendry. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Cooper 0 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 But you cant get them all right SB. Advocaat was also responsible for Numan, van Bronckhorst, Mols. He had very decent signings too. As well as the rotten ones you mention. Even regarding the money he spent.... it is hard to say it was his fault IF it was the case that he just said "this is the guy I want" and left Bain to go do it. It wouldn't surprise me if our business was done that way, even if it is wrong. A manager should KNOW the transfer market and what a player is a) worth in the market and b) worth to your club (2 different things... a player may be worth more to you if you don't have someone for his position) and should inform those dealing in the transfers how much he believes the player to be worth. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if we didn't operate that way though ! He does take credit for the way we played - but lets not forget that with the money he was allowed to spend, and the quality of player he brought in, that he wasn't being asked to simply win the league - he was clearly being tasked to produce the goods in Europe - and whilst we played admirably on occasion under him..... we certainly were NOT successful in Europe under Advocaat. And he had no answer for O'Neill either. I didn't like the way O'Neill had his team playing but it was effective. Bain didn't commence his job as CEO until after wee Dick left mate, i believe Murray done all the private jet negotiating. Bain was in the background within the commercial department when Advocaat was there. Bain certainly picked up many bad habits and mistakes from Murray bud sadly never had the brains to do things different when it was he calling the shots. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Dynamo 128 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Some of the daft transfer fees we paid are maybe partially Walter's fault because he could probably have said to Bain not to pay too much for x player or not to pay over a certain amount for y player, but he most likely just said what players he definitely wanted and then Bain went about his business of cocking up half of the deals and paying too much in the deals he didn't cock up. I've always thought that Advocaat deserved a portion of the blame for the ridiculous spending during his time as manager. He probably didn't give a toss about the costs or how much he was spending, but instead just did like Walter and so many other football managers do and just said "I want him, him and him to strengthen the squad". Murray sanctioned the spending, but Advocaat (like Walter!) should have known that some of the fees being paid were too high. The only one I would say we really overpaid for during Advocaat's time was Flo. Maybe Ball but he had a growing reputation albeit an unfulfilled one. I'm sure there are others. I think Advocaats problem was the amount he bought, Though the Gayle signing was a real WTF 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Kanchelskis was the biggest waste of money for me. 5.5m for a guy nearing the end of his career was far too much. 76 games where he was pretty mediocre on the whole, and then left for free, was not good value. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERRAB 3,253 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Bain didn't commence his job as CEO until after wee Dick left mate, i believe Murray done all the private jet negotiating. Bain was in the background within the commercial department when Advocaat was there. Bain certainly picked up many bad habits and mistakes from Murray bud sadly never had the brains to do things different when it was he calling the shots. Bain the former male model/chef was never suitable or qualified for the CEO position 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gribz 743 Posted July 1, 2014 Author Share Posted July 1, 2014 Kanchelskis was the biggest waste of money for me. 5.5m for a guy nearing the end of his career was far too much. 76 games where he was pretty mediocre on the whole, and then left for free, was not good value. Wouldn't disagree with that, just a few glimpse of quality on occasion. Advocaats better signings - Mols, Van Bronkhurst and Klos. Tugay and Reyna were also class acts and unheard of. Klos may not have been signed had Charbonnier not got injured. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannochsidebear 2,306 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Talking of Charbonnier, am I the only one that everytime I hear the French National Anthem thinks back to that game at Perth where the Bears were singing La Marseilleses (sp?!!) with LC's name replacing the actual words. I was behind LC's goal that day and he was really moved to hear the bears sing his national anthem to him. I think we won 7-0 as well. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gribz 743 Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 Talking of Charbonnier, am I the only one that everytime I hear the French National Anthem thinks back to that game at Perth where the Bears were singing La Marseilleses (sp?!!) with LC's name replacing the actual words. I was behind LC's goal that day and he was really moved to hear the bears sing his national anthem to him. I think we won 7-0 as well. Yes and that was Guivarch's debut IIRC and he scored a few that day. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Dynamo 128 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Wouldn't disagree with that, just a few glimpse of quality on occasion. Advocaats better signings - Mols, Van Bronkhurst and Klos. Tugay and Reyna were also class acts and unheard of. Klos may not have been signed had Charbonnier not got injured. We only signed Charbonnier because Dortmund wouldn't sell us Klos. Despite it being an open secret he was joining us the following summer 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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