Now official: HMRC appeal dismissed

[craig 5,195]

Than he errs. The EBT case and HMRC's witch hunt were the prime reasons for our demise, closely followed by the credit crunch and the fall of Murray's steel empire. What happened to us afterwards is all a consequence of this. Of course, this doesn't sit well with people who need to blame someone directly.

 

Nonsense. Simply nonsense. The EBT case and HMRC were not the prime reasons for our demise.

 

Funny though how you suggest it "doesn't sit well with people who need to blame someone directly"..... immediately after blaming the EBT case and HMRC.

[craig 5,195]

I don't think the BTC caused our problems/demise, but it was a major contributing factor. With the potential liability hanging over our heads, it was impossible to find a suitable/reputable buyer for the club.

 

Then Murray shouldn't have sold.

 

EBT's happened under his watch.

The club was sold under his watch.

 

Yet we have folks like dB throwing as much blame as possible onto HMRC. Too convenient, even though we know that there were shadowy goings-on at HMRC they still didn't cause the demise.

[craig 5,195]

You're both right. Whyte destroyed us, but Without the BTC and the HMRC witchhunt, he would never have been in the door. Without the BTC we were a much more saleable asset and may well have gone to more sensible owners. .

 

Probably the most logical post yet.

 

That said, this also seems to ignore the part that SDM had in all of this. He didn't have to sell to Whyte (depending on who you believe about being pressured by the bank) - so if that were the case then SDM plays a bigger role in all of this than even HMRC.

 

HMRC had a valid case against us (just because you lose doesn't mean it is an invalid case) - they had similar cases going against some of the EPL teams too which settled. Was it a with hunt ? Undoubtedly in my mind as they refused to settle at a number which would have seen them make a fairly sizeable amount of revenue.

 

But I still don't think they CAUSED our demise. A contributor ? Yes. But we had other more significant contributors that were internal (Whyte & SDM) - so it irks me a bit to see HMRC getting so much blame and, from my vantage, it looks like a schoolground tactic of pointing the finger elsewhere despite knowing that you yourself were at fault (poor analogy as I don't think the fans were at fault, but our custodians were).

[Hildy 0]

The HMRC campaign against EBTs indirectly led to the company's liquidation. If there had been no EBT threat hanging over the club, Murray might have found a more credible buyer although he'd been trying to offload the club for a number of years without success.

 

Whyte steered the ship towards the iceberg, so he was at the wheel when the sinking started, but the EBT issue effectively allowed him to take charge of a ship that he was unqualified to master.

 

Murray sold to Whyte under pressure from his bank - I do not believe he had a choice when it became known that Whyte was ready to enter the fray. Murray's empire had been weakened after the 2008 financial meltdown and Rangers had become a drag on resources, but the EBT threat hanging over the club meant that unloading it had to be a priority.

 

As the EBT issue meant that Rangers was virtually unsaleable, the appearance of Whyte was great news for both Murray and his bank.

 

The use of EBTs by Rangers has to be one of the worst decisions Murray ever made, but do not underestimate the feelings that certain key Celtic-minded people had for Murray. He was detested by some of them and they would have been beside themselves with glee when he and Rangers were humiliated.

 

Did Rangers-hating play a role in where we are today? I suspect that it did, but we may never know for certain. Celtic is still a Celtic-minded club. It knows the politics, the tricks, the traditions and the traumas of Old Firm matters and it's no surprise that some Celtic-minded commentators are better informed on Rangers matters than we are.

 

By comparison, Rangers is a club that has no meaningful connection to its past. It is owned and run by people who know as much about its history as Ally McCoist does about football management. It is a lightweight compared to its rival from the east end.

 

In the Old Firm match-up today, there is an obvious gulf between the teams on the park. Unfortunately, off the park, it's even worse.

[Crimson Dynamo 128]

Whyte said he bought Rangers knowing that administration was a certainty or words to that effect. I reckon he felt the BTC was a loser so he was hellbent on making it happen.

 

Murray is not stupid he must've known what Whyte was he just wanted shot of us, whether that was at the behest of the bank, who knows but he coulda said no, what difference would it have made to him?

 

As far HMRC is concerned whether you believe the conspiracies or not they clearly thought they had a case against us and if I remember correctly won the first part of this, we won the appeal. They were only doing what we pay them for. The leaks are a seperate issue

[Rangersitis 0]

At what point do we actually accept that people within our own corridors of power are culpable for this ?

 

EBT case or not, our demise was caused primarily by the profligacy of Murray, the selling of RFC to Whyte despite being told not to by AJ, and then also the deliberate refusal of Whyte to pay the taxes that the club were due to HMRC ?

 

I am fairly tired of people blaming HMRC, Reid, Lawell, and anyone else except those who we KNOW actually DID contribute to our downfall..... the Murray's and Whyte's of the world.

 

We need to grow up and accept that much of the blood-letting in all of this was from those entrusted as our custodians.

 

We must not forget to mention those whose own naked ambition for power and the sycophancy that accompanied it, made Whyte's scam that much easier to pull off. They are without shame and still continue along the same path today.

 

Defending fuck all.

[colinstein 294]

Whyte said he bought Rangers knowing that administration was a certainty or words to that effect. I reckon he felt the BTC was a loser so he was hellbent on making it happen.

 

Murray is not stupid he must've known what Whyte was he just wanted shot of us, whether that was at the behest of the bank, who knows but he coulda said no, what difference would it have made to him?

 

As far HMRC is concerned whether you believe the conspiracies or not they clearly thought they had a case against us and if I remember correctly won the first part of this, we won the appeal. They were only doing what we pay them for. The leaks are a seperate issue

 

no that's not what happened at all

HMRC did NOT win the first part of anything. There was no tribunal before our appeal. HMRC unilaterally decided we owed them £40 million for the EBT's and because we hadn't paid it decided to fine us another £40 million. The first time it went to judgement (First tier Tax Tribunal) it was found in our favour. The present Upper tier tax tribunal is deciding on an HMRC appeal against that verdict.

[Hildy 0]

Whyte said he bought Rangers knowing that administration was a certainty or words to that effect. I reckon he felt the BTC was a loser so he was hellbent on making it happen.

 

Murray is not stupid he must've known what Whyte was he just wanted shot of us, whether that was at the behest of the bank, who knows but he coulda said no, what difference would it have made to him?

 

As far HMRC is concerned whether you believe the conspiracies or not they clearly thought they had a case against us and if I remember correctly won the first part of this, we won the appeal. They were only doing what we pay them for. The leaks are a seperate issue

Celtic used an EBT too, widely believed to be for Juninho.

 

Celtic had a re-think over this though, and although they declared the money in their annual accounts, they did not disclose it to the SFA or SPL - unlike Rangers - and after becoming aware of a potential tax liability, Celtic agreed to pay a sum of money to HMRC.

 

Brian Quinn is believed to be the fellow who was advising Celtic on the EBT issue, and he was a former high-ranking employee in the Bank of England. Once Celtic had paid over money to HMRC, they could relax and watch the fun start.

 

Being a well-connected club with influential and clued-up directors certainly benefitted Celtic on this issue. Contrast this with our effective one-man band operation under Murray and the current lot which can't even be trusted to publish error-free accounts.

[RANGERRAB 3,252]

The oldco didn't fall or jump on its own.I firmly believe it was pushed by an orchestrated plan by individuals of an anti Rangers persuasion with links to politics, banking and of course HMRC.

Why would a bank force someone to sell a business to someone then immediately withdraw all credit to that business? What good did that do that business? It was deliberate in an attempt to destroy Rangers along with the EBT tax bill. EBT's were legal tax avoidance whether people like that or not.

I firmly believe there will be justice at the end of all this.All roads lead to the other side of the city.I relish the day all of this comes out

[Super Cooper 0]

It will never come out. Not a chance in hell. These people are good at what they do.