Rangers v HMRC - A Pyrrhic victory

[Mountain Bear 0]

Bullshit. We were f*cked by greed and hatred.

 

We were. But we were asleep when it happened.

[barca72 440]

We were. But we were asleep when it happened.

 

Okay,if you mean the fans were I'll give you that.

[ian1964 10,409]

[D'Artagnan 173]

There is a price to pay for being the biggest and the best. Did anyone seriously believe that the fall of the giant would not be greeted by hilarity and glee? When the mighty is humbled, sympathy is rarely in evidence.

 

To fans of lesser light clubs, Rangers was the arrogant bully and long overdue for a fall. The fact that our crisis has been so drawn out and grim has poured fuel on the fire and incinerated the club's reputation for being influential and immortal.

 

Our secret is out now. We are vulnerable and weak and our hard-won reputation that had us marked out as being indestructible and permanent has gone, perhaps forever.

 

Fairness takes a back seat when an establishment pillar collapses. Who really cares if Rangers is the victim in this - apart from ourselves? If Manchester United had endured what we had, would the English football public be in mourning or would it instead be in fits of laughter?

 

It's probably true that the levels of hatred and venom directed towards Rangers are excessive, after all, we have Celtic fans in our midst, but if you are a football fan, and if you have travelled around Scotland following Rangers, don't tell me you are shocked by the way our situation has been greeted. Our pain is their gain. Facts? Who cares about facts?

 

It is impossible for Rangers to portray itself as a victim. What happened happened and pleading unfairness and criminality is not going to cut it. The double standard in Scottish broadcasting ensures that sympathy is reserved for the little guy - not institutions like Rangers that have lorded it over Scottish football for over a hundred years.

 

Maybe certain folk will do jail time for this, or perhaps not, but even if they do, it won't repair the damage done. When a club or institution is as big as we are, it is expected to sort itself out when a crisis comes along, and we have been singularly unable to do that.

 

Don't waste your energy on promises of revenge or threats to withdraw the 'blue pound'. Rangers was blown apart by our own negligence as much as the alleged criminality of others.

 

 

I'm not angry at all. I'm just saddened that we have been found out to be a castle built on sand.

 

 

So irrespective of our position as the biggest and the best, and the self-inflicted failings we brought upon ourselves, are we not entitled to the fundamental principle of equality before the law ?

 

Should we not have been entitled to. at the very least. a presumption of innocence until proven guilty ?

 

Do you think it was fair we were subjected to a trial by television, in what has now transpired to be a less than impartial documentary, cobbled together with evidence stolen from the government agency responsible for our investigation ?

 

Do the pledges given by a professional investigative government body to respect and ensure confidentiality in tax matters not apply to Rangers because we are the "biggest and the best " ?

[RANGERRAB 3,254]

I await the fall out from this UTTT result with great relish........now for the two bhoys who were at LBG. They're next hopefully

[Hildy 0]

So irrespective of our position as the biggest and the best' date=' and the self-inflicted failings we brought upon ourselves, are we not entitled to the fundamental principle of equality before the law ?

 

Should we not have been entitled to. at the very least. a presumption of innocence until proven guilty ?

 

Do you think it was fair we were subjected to a trial by television, in what has now transpired to be a less than impartial documentary, cobbled together with evidence stolen from the government agency responsible for our investigation ?

 

Do the pledges given by a professional investigative government body to respect and ensure confidentiality in tax matters not apply to Rangers because we are the "biggest and the best " ?[/quote']

Of course we should be entitled to equality before the law, but the grievance mindset that has kicked in within the Rangers support fails to take account of the tribal football climate that exists here.

 

Non-Rangers fans couldn't wait to kick us when we were down, and the media - even the BBC - jumped on the anti-Rangers bandwagon. While I make no attempt to justify the media position on this, I think we have to recognise that a large number of people across the country were eagerly anticipating Rangers drawing its last breath - both football and non-football people.

 

Thankfully, that didn't happen, but when Rangers supporters claim that our plight was the action of one rogue owner - Craig Whyte - and that we are merely innocent victims - is this credible when a fairly lengthy period of domestic success under David Murray was enjoyed by everyone because we perceived, certainly for a while, that he was a good owner?

 

If a good owner means that 'we' are able to share in trophy-laden success, can 'we' divorce ourselves from the downside when a bad owner walks through the door? This seems to be what we are trying to do.

 

Like the banks, we thought we were too big too fail, and like the banks, we have been proved wrong. This massive institution needed just one bad apple to bring the whole lot down. This demonstrates weakness within the club, its ownership, its internal structures and in the support itself. The Rangers castle really was built on sand and that should shame each and every one of us.

 

A well-organised and properly-run Rangers should never have gone through what we did - but Rangers was not a well-run club and we could revisit our troubles at almost any time.

 

Instead of wailing and weeping and hating the world, the support needs to man up and expend its energy on securing the club for itself, and then rebuilding it.

 

If we drone on and on about how hard done to we are, we'll never grasp the future as it urgently needs to be grasped.

[calscot 0]

While SDM was no angel by any means, I can't see what great crime he committed against other clubs that warranted how we as a club and fans were treated.

 

They were akin to trying to apply the death penalty to a whole (and very large) family for a bit of creative and slightly dodgy accounting by the head of that family.

 

We are angry at the incredibly unjustified, undeserved, disproportionate and highly hypocritical way we were treated, and no deflection to the misdemeanors of an erstwhile owner will ever change that.

[D'Artagnan 173]

Of course we should be entitled to equality before the law, but the grievance mindset that has kicked in within the Rangers support fails to take account of the tribal football climate that exists here.

Non-Rangers fans couldn't wait to kick us when we were down, and the media - even the BBC - jumped on the anti-Rangers bandwagon. While I make no attempt to justify the media position on this, I think we have to recognise that a large number of people across the country were eagerly anticipating Rangers drawing its last breath - both football and non-football people.

 

Thankfully, that didn't happen, but when Rangers supporters claim that our plight was the action of one rogue owner - Craig Whyte - and that we are merely innocent victims - is this credible when a fairly lengthy period of domestic success under David Murray was enjoyed by everyone because we perceived, certainly for a while, that he was a good owner?

 

If a good owner means that 'we' are able to share in trophy-laden success, can 'we' divorce ourselves from the downside when a bad owner walks through the door? This seems to be what we are trying to do.

 

 

Like the banks, we thought we were too big too fail, and like the banks, we have been proved wrong. This massive institution needed just one bad apple to bring the whole lot down. This demonstrates weakness within the club, its ownership, its internal structures and in the support itself. The Rangers castle really was built on sand and that should shame each and every one of us.

 

A well-organised and properly-run Rangers should never have gone through what we did - but Rangers was not a well-run club and we could revisit our troubles at almost any time.

 

Instead of wailing and weeping and hating the world, the support needs to man up and expend its energy on securing the club for itself, and then rebuilding it.

 

If we drone on and on about how hard done to we are, we'll never grasp the future as it urgently needs to be grasped.

 

Of course it takes account of a tribal football climate - the grievance mindset you refer to is expressed in respect of the SPL chiefs who acted on a presumption of guilt to ensure a draconian and excessive punishment for our club was meted out, a media who have completely failed to exercise any semblance of objectivity in the way the matter was reported and finally a supposedly professional government investigative agency who have systematically failed in all areas as an organisation - even down to the safe care and storage of evidence.

 

From so called professionals I expect a standard of treatment, for not just our club, but any other club or even organisatio,n for such professionals to rise above football tribalism.

 

Furthermore I think you are being considerably generous to those you refer to as "Non-Rangers fans". I would respectfully suggest that many were driven by far more than just a motivation to kick us whilst we were down .

 

Thankfully, that didn't happen, but when Rangers supporters claim that our plight was the action of one rogue owner - Craig Whyte - and that we are merely innocent victims - is this credible when a fairly lengthy period of domestic success under David Murray was enjoyed by everyone because we perceived, certainly for a while, that he was a good owner?

 

The conduct of Whyte, who behaved in both a rogue, and I would be willing to wager criminal manner are the reason for our current travails. If anyone is uncomfortable with this suggestion i will be more than happy to qualify it and demonstrate how his reported conduct fulfils the essential elements of fraud- pretend, induce & obtain. Yes there was considerable cause and effect but the major component part of our downfall was the conduct of one rogue owner.

[der Berliner 3,234]

While SDM was no angel by any means, I can't see what great crime he committed against other clubs that warranted how we as a club and fans were treated.

 

They were akin to trying to apply the death penalty to a whole (and very large) family for a bit of creative and slightly dodgy accounting by the head of that family.

 

We are angry at the incredibly unjustified, undeserved, disproportionate and highly hypocritical way we were treated, and no deflection to the misdemeanors of an erstwhile owner will ever change that.

 

Very much so. If asked by people oblivious to it all, I liken our fate to that of the Costa Concordia. The whole of (football minded) Scotland wanted to punish us for crimes not proven and would have sent us to oblivion. It is like the stewards, passengers, cooks, hands and even the Costa Concordia itself were blamed and made to suffer for deeds comitted on the bridge of that ship by less than a handful of people. As if they all had a hand in the drama.

I asked people what they would think had happened to Bayern Munich if they would have faced similar allegations and the "supporters" of the BL were to decide on their fate. Wry smiles all along ...

 

It is utterly mindboggling that we still see those smug faces that ran the SPL and SFA back then presiding over the fate of Scottish football to this day.

[Hildy 0]

Of course it takes account of a tribal football climate - the grievance mindset you refer to is expressed in respect of the SPL chiefs who acted on a presumption of guilt to ensure a draconian and excessive punishment for our club was meted out' date=' a media who have completely failed to exercise any semblance of objectivity in the way the matter was reported and finally a supposedly professional government investigative agency who have systematically failed in all areas as an organisation - even down to the safe care and storage of evidence.

 

From so called professionals I expect a standard of treatment, for not just our club, but any other club or even organisatio,n for such professionals to rise above football tribalism.

 

Furthermore I think you are being considerably generous to those you refer to as "Non-Rangers fans". I would respectfully suggest that many were driven by far more than just a motivation to kick us whilst we were down .

 

 

 

The conduct of Whyte, who behaved in both a rogue, and I would be willing to wager criminal manner are the reason for our current travails. If anyone is uncomfortable with this suggestion i will be more than happy to qualify it and demonstrate how his reported conduct fulfils the essential elements of fraud- pretend, induce & obtain. Yes there was considerable cause and effect but the major component part of our downfall was the conduct of one rogue owner.[/quote']

Your last few words: "the major component part of our downfall was the conduct of one rogue owner".

 

Think how absurd this is. I know you are on board with fan ownership but the message has to get beyond converts like us. One rogue owner, in his first five minutes at the club, derailed it, significantly damaged it and came close to killing it.

 

An institution like Rangers should never be in this position - ever - and yet lessons have not been learned. We still have people wishing for miracles and steering well clear of taking a shared responsibility for a football club that is a huge part of their lives.

 

They would rather trust to luck than having faith in the huge Rangers family, and so here we are again - with dubious ownership, no idea where we are going, very little trust in the top table and an unlimited amount of wishful thinking about what the club needs to do to be a player again - but no-one at Rangers is listening because no-one at Rangers really cares.

 

It should be impossible for complete strangers to waltz in and destroy a famous club like Rangers, but our door is permanently wedged open for the next vile regime to arrive to do whatever it likes while we stand idly by.

 

It is no wonder Rangers is a laughing stock. From top to tail it is completely dysfunctional and at risk from God knows who doing God knows what.

 

If we do not learn, and if we are cast adrift once again, there will be no excuses, and maybe no recovery either.