craig 5,195 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Probably because he never got anywhere near him, not that I have seen anyway. Because they were covered by the rules on red cards for violent conduct? So was Mohsni then..... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,195 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 It's not just one incident though, it's the fact that he did it time after time at Southend and with us, that does indeed mark himm iout as a nut case. The authorities cant really act in that regard though. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aweebluesoandso 290 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Why should they defend the indefensible actions of a person who has proven time and again that he can't control himself. He was our player at the time of the incident and Rangers could and should have taken disciplinary action against him IMO. The club signed him, I presume knowing his history? They then share some of the blame. The club couldn't defend his actions, most agree to that. But washing their hands was a cowardly act imo. They should have at least highlighted the Motherwell players culpability in starting the trouble, and their subsequent actions in further exacerbating the indecent. That's not defending Moshni but merely providing some balance on the affair. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,195 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 BH, I would give your viewpoint a whole lot more respect if you weren't so obviously clouded by your utter contempt for Mohsni. You have shown it time and time again and this incident was like a red rag to a bull for you - it was easy pickings for you to put the boot into a player you hated. At the same time you actually defend the opponent when it is tough to defend him. It really looks to me as if this was a gift horse for you to put the boot into Mohsni and absolve anyone else from the opposition of any blame. Had Erwin not pushed him in the back then none of it would have happened. But all you can see is Mohsni's retaliation. And before anyone says "Mohsni started it by refusing to shake his hand" - Mohsni was not obligated to do so. Bad sportsman ? Sure. Bad loser ? Sure. Obligated ? No way. So the reaction of Erwin should be looked at as he clearly INSTIGATED the melee, despite having seen his team just stave off relegation, on the winning side, scored goals in the play offs....... And we say that Mohsni is a nutcase ? I would say there is just as much justification to say Erwin is a nutcase ! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Can you even slightly justify this? I get the flying headbutt thing but you are completely contradicting that viewpoint here. Your moral compass seems to whizz around to whatever agenda you have against this player. As you have shown, your own actions on the pitch actively encourage retaliation as you wouldn't punish a clear case of assault. Players should be protected from this but you would be derelict of that duty to them. You seem to get some of the letter of the law but totally missing the spirit and I fail to see any sense of fairness. I'm sorry I don't really understand your points but I'll try to clarify mine. He (Mohsni) was warned on multiple occasions by previous boss Paul Sturrock about his poor disciplinary record, having collected 17 bookings and four red cards in three seasons at Southend http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22124604 including one for kicking a Northampton player in the goolies after just 27 minutes. Seriously, take a look at it here: http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11788/9872013/a-look-at-the-rap-sheet-of-rangers-defender-bilel-moshni-after-motherwell-brawl AND be honest, how many times have you seen a player punch another in the face with a straight left or right? AND on how many of those occasions was the player retaliating after being pushed in the back? AND he was sent off 4 times in 2 seasons with us and I don't know how many bookings. So that's 8 red cards in 5 seasons, which is a far worse record than earned Willie Woodburn a sine die ban. That was my main point. I would have been derelict of my duty if I had been refereeing and not protected Mohsni from a push in the back? How exactly would I or any referee have done that? I have seen few if any referees who by their very presence could control a player's actions; Tom "Tiny" Wharton could do it sometimes but he couldn't stop Jimmy Johnstone kicking Totie Beck in the New Year derby in 1965. And I wasn't on the same planet as Tiny Wharton who was my supervisor for some years. Jack Mowat (who preceded Wharton both as my supervisor and as Chairman of the Supervisors and who refereed the 1960 European Cup Final: Real Madrid v Eintracht Frankfurt at Hampden Park) probably did because he was known as a fierce disciplinarian. Bob Valentine could do it because he was so fit that he was always right on top of the action. Brian McGinlay, perhaps sometimes, by his camaraderie with the players. Hugh Dallas couldn't do that, the best he could do was get a high percentage of the decisions correct and he was far and away the best of his generation. NO referee in the modern era compares to those five IMHO. None of them could have stopped Erwin pushing Mohsni in the back or Mohsni punching and kicking in retaliation. Indeed referees are advised to stand back, take note of who does what and then take appropriate action; not get physically involved themselves. Are you somehow suggesting that in the spirit of the law Erwin should have been subject to harsher punishment and/or Mohsni less so? If that's your stance could you explain that a bit further please. Edited June 21, 2015 by BrahimHemdani 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Moshni did nothing wrong, Lee Erwin got exactly what he deserved. SBS. We don't often agree but I usually find there is some substance to your arguments. "Moshni did nothing wrong"? You cannot be serious. You can argue the provocation or the degree of the violence Mohsni meted out in retaliation but, he did nothing wrong. Come on man, this is a wind up, surely? Edited June 19, 2015 by BrahimHemdani 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Sorry but Erwin's initial push in the back was violent conduct, he lifted his hands to an opponent who not only wasn't defending himself but was blind-sided by the attack. That deserved a red, and I don't really care what BH says about that either as a former official as his dislike of Mohsni clouds his judgement. A push in the back is NOT violent conduct and my opinion of Mohsni has nothing to do with it. Think about how many times players push others in the back in a football match; how many would be left at the end of they were all guilty of violent conduct? Yes the match was finished but Mohsni refused to shake hands, that's what started it. Erwin was wrong to push him, of course he was, but please look at the video again and tell me if you really and truly think that was violent conduct. Have you not seen one player push another out of the way to get the ball at a throw in, for example; how many such incidents are punished by a yellow never mind a red card? Edited June 19, 2015 by BrahimHemdani 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Probably because he never got anywhere near him, not that I have seen anyway. Because they were covered by the rules on red cards for violent conduct? They were violent conduct but not deemed "excessive" in comparison with Mohsni's punch and kick. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 The authorities cant really act in that regard though. That's an interesting point, Craig. I think you'll find that if a player consistently amasses 4 red cards in 2/3 seasons with clubs in different jurisdictions, eventually his overall record will come to the attention of UEFA or FIFA who wil act accordingly. That said I don't know if there is any such system. If Rangers had taken disciplinary action and fined him say two weeks wages and he didn't pay then I think Rangers would have been able to report that to UEFA and stop him playing until he paid up. I am fairly sure they could have done that as he was under contract at the time of the incident; not sure if they could have suspended him as well. But the SFA have, so perhaps Rangers could have done so as well. Anyway, with a 7 match ban to serve that will be enforced anywhere in the world I would think, he might have some difficulty finding another club. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 The club signed him, I presume knowing his history? They then share some of the blame. The club couldn't defend his actions, most agree to that. But washing their hands was a cowardly act imo. They should have at least highlighted the Motherwell players culpability in starting the trouble, and their subsequent actions in further exacerbating the indecent. That's not defending Moshni but merely providing some balance on the affair. I completely agree that we should never have signed a player with that kind of disciplinary record; and hopefully will never do so again. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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