trublusince1982 243 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Sorry but that's just rambling nonsense , try reading my post again I have read it. Its full of holes that ignore actions and comments from those involved while trying to fit actions to a pre conceived outcome. It screams of being unable to face reality while making the excuse of "its okay because it will be enough to pass the present test so lets not worry about tomorrows". While not understanding that setting foundations for a better future takes more than just doing enough to win the championship. I also clearly answer why it would make sense to buy high quality players for the league we are in now. think you should read mine again it clearly answers each statement posed and questions asked by the rm poster. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbr 1,247 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 we are not signing players for the championship as the players have said themselves ,that's why they are getting 3+ year deals. They are players for promotion and europe, they are also for the cup runs this year. Any money spent is with future resale in mind and also should be of a standard to play next year if we go up. There is absolutely no reason to not sign them now if the money and players are available. We would still make returns if being prudent while setting better quality foundations and increasing commercial incomes. We have no idea why those on trial have not signed yet they could be weighing up offers or negotiating contracts or wanting more money than we can offer but are willing to wait and see what other offers they get. That or the players might not be of the standard warburton ideally wants but maybe the best on offer today until other interests are clarified. Nobody knows. measuring ourselves or signings against the standard hearts or hibs have/had is quite frankly a disgrace. we should not be shopping in the same market as them with the same outlooks or wanting to be anyway shape or form on a comparable standard. We should always demand the best we can get not just enough to get by on the short term. Next season we lose another 3 or 4 players and now have 3 signings contracted for 3 years that are unlikely to be anywhere good enough to challenge them or qualify for group stage europe(where the money is). That's not sensible its short termism at best. Every other team out-with(historically) the old firm have for years followed this same transfer policy ,why would we be able to achieve better with the same? All this transfer policy will bring is a standard achieved by the likes of aberdeen and the rest of the no marks who fail to qualify for europe every year how is it financially sensible to rely on freebie players that do not attract either the commercial or sporting interest that bigger names would? When building for a better future being cheap is not financially sensible. All we will have to do is once again start from scratch. It looks to me along with what the board has said that we are going to go with what we have and come january if we are not winning and the majority of st money is cleared we will then spend to ensure promotion. pretty much the definition of only aiming to do enough. That's not building its scrapping by for the time being. Would explain why we are loaning players and not spending any significant amount right now, the season ticket money doesn't clear all at once it is spread out past the window so we wont do anything major till jan and only if necessary . KIng has absolutely no excuse along with the others for not putting money in now as promised. Doesn't need to be as much as the quoted 5 million. According to king if players can be identified he will stump up, well then no excuse get it done. You are taking a guys opinion and asking us for the sake of your arguement to take it as fact , you fail to factor in what Mark Warburton has said repeatedly and you mis represent what the original poster has said on numerous things . He never compared our signing policy to that of Hibs or Hearts , what he did do was point out the mistakes we mmade whilst highlighting how a team made up of youths and free transfers romped the league by a country mile . As for those on trial and not signing or signing , surely even through your blinkered views its better to give these guys a proper trial period than the way we used to do things , which was that if they could stand and run around a pitch once or twice they were given a contract whether it suited the team or not . You say the 3 players we signed will not be good enough for the SPFL ,thats your opinon , how you know this as fact escapes me , you say its not sensible to sign these guys up for 3 years yet you also say its not right so sign free transfers , I think you are a wee bit confused as to what you want, the commercial or sporting interest of a free transfer is something that every club in the world now utilise as is the loan market , why we should bve any different is beyon me. And you end up with the usual dig at King , how many times guys like you need to be told that there is a share issue coming up is beyond me and gets tiresome . Like I said your post is just a ramble of your opinions which contradict themselves , we have a management team that knows what they are looking for but you know better , why you didnt get the job is something we will all just have to live with I guess . 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trublusince1982 243 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) You are taking a guys opinion and asking us for the sake of your arguement to take it as fact , you fail to factor in what Mark Warburton has said repeatedly and you mis represent what the original poster has said on numerous things . He never compared our signing policy to that of Hibs or Hearts , what he did do was point out the mistakes we mmade whilst highlighting how a team made up of youths and free transfers romped the league by a country mile . He uses this as an reasoning on why our signings are suitable for the here and now and in reasoning why their is no reason to worry As for those on trial and not signing or signing , surely even through your blinkered views its better to give these guys a proper trial period than the way we used to do things , which was that if they could stand and run around a pitch once or twice they were given a contract whether it suited the team or not . The trial is not the problem you miss understand its the standard of signing under debate and the market level we are shopping at. He agian reasons that they are good enough because it one makes finacial sense and two they are good enough to win the championship. I argue both these reasons are wrong. You say the 3 players we signed will not be good enough for the SPFL ,thats your opinon , how you know this as fact escapes me , you say its not sensible to sign these guys up for 3 years yet you also say its not right so sign free transfers , I think you are a wee bit confused as to what you want, the commercial or sporting interest of a free transfer is something that every club in the world now utilise as is the loan market , why we should bve any different is beyon me. I clearly say on the odd transfer this works not as a signing strategy . The chances of finding 7/8 players at the current recruitment level that will be good enough for our future plans is nonsense. If what you assert was true nobody would need to spend any cash we could just all sign free transfers and hit the same hieghts. [b]You again mistake opinion and fact. This is a debating site it is all opinion or an individuals understanding of facts as they are presented.Nobody can read the future. Opinions are formed from weighing the available information against historical data. Freebie signings in the majority will not be good enough. Common sense alone tells us the chances of building a team for near on zero that will be good enough to play in front of 50,000 never mind a rangers crowd is extremely unlikely if not daft. I also explain further reasoning again on common sense. When scrapping the bottom of the market financially it does not make financial sense when trying to build foundations for a quality future. This again is obvious. Cheap is cheap for a reason. It can neither be relied on or turned into diamonds with enough regularity to eccourage any belief in its success as a buisness strategy.[/b] You act as if this is a new idea we have already reaped the benefits of cheap freebie signings that we expected to flourish at this level how did it workout? And you end up with the usual dig at King , how many times guys like you need to be told that there is a share issue coming up is beyond me and gets tiresome . This is just pathetic. Are we not allowed to talk about anything to do with king without these usual crap analogies. The guy made a public promise for backing, it has nothing to do with liking the guy or not. Its to do with the facts as they are presented. How many times do you need to be told there is not a share issue coming up at this point or pencilled in for any date. Its still up in the air.How many times do you need to be told we do not need a share issue for them to invest? Again can you answer why it is the best policy for Rangers to wait until a share issue can be arranged while the transfer window closes and we are left with a squad worse than last season? Can you answer how do we build foundations for a better future without cash now? Are we just treading water until then? when do you think is the best time to start building and sorting the problems? six months from now? 12 months? or right now? I have made my opinion clear. The time is now the excuses for waiting hold no water whatsoever. Like I said your post is just a ramble of your opinions which contradict themselves , we have a management team that knows what they are looking for but you know better , why you didnt get the job is something we will all just have to live with I guess . The debate is not whether warburton knows what he is doing it is on whether we are giving him the tools needed to succeed and meet the levels targeted. but good try at deflection since i miss understand can you clear one thing up for me. I state that the current transfer levels being freebies and very very cheap acquisitions(£200k) is not good enough to attain our goals of large continuous crowds and european qualification within the next 3 years. So am i wrong in stating you must therefore believe one of two things? 1. the sigings level as it stands is good enough to achieve stated goals. 2. you do not know enough to form an opinion either way if its two that means you don't know enough to form an opinion but you know enough to know someone elses opinion is wrong. very clever think the difference between me and you is I try to form my opinions on the here and now, while you want to include the promised land that is always just around the next corner. Edited July 12, 2015 by trublusince1982 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilledbear 16 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 It sounds as if you think we have the wrong Manager. He obviously agreed to the package offered to him, now he is Managing and recruiting in his usual way. If you are not happy, perhaps we could hear your alternatives for the Board and Manager. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,231 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) since i miss understand can you clear one thing up for me. I state that the current transfer levels being freebies and very very cheap acquisitions(£200k) is not good enough to attain our goals of large continuous crowds and european qualification within the next 3 years. So am i wrong in stating you must therefore believe one of two things? 1. the sigings level as it stands is good enough to achieve stated goals. 2. you do not know enough to form an opinion either way if its two that means you don't know enough to form an opinion but you know enough to know someone elses opinion is wrong. very clever think the difference between me and you is I try to form my opinions on the here and now, while you want to include the promised land that is always just around the next corner. Maybe you re-read what rbr actually wrote, since the reply above does not exactly reflect that you actually did in the first place. We are some 2,9 years away from the end result of our 3 year strategy and when there is no reason to splash cash on players if freebies and decent loans are available, why should we spend any money? Or do you think that large crowds will return if we sign a few 1m guys or the like? People will return when they see that Rangers is their Rangers again. Of course, the transfer window hasn't shut just yet and one can't actually tell whether we won't spend any money till the end of August. Reading your above reply makes you think that we need to spend money to get out of where we are, or else we are doomed? And as for Europe and Premiership challenges, we sure need to spend money to get there, but we have how many transfer windows to do so ... AFTER we gained promotion, hopefully next summer? Edited July 12, 2015 by der Berliner 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbr 1,247 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) You are taking a guys opinion and asking us for the sake of your arguement to take it as fact , you fail to factor in what Mark Warburton has said repeatedly and you mis represent what the original poster has said on numerous things .He never compared our signing policy to that of Hibs or Hearts , what he did do was point out the mistakes we mmade whilst highlighting how a team made up of youths and free transfers romped the league by a country mile . He uses this as an reasoning on why our signings are suitable for the here and now and in reasoning why their is no reason to worry As for those on trial and not signing or signing , surely even through your blinkered views its better to give these guys a proper trial period than the way we used to do things , which was that if they could stand and run around a pitch once or twice they were given a contract whether it suited the team or not . The trial is not the problem you miss understand its the standard of signing under debate and the market level we are shopping at. He agian reasons that they are good enough because it one makes finacial sense and two they are good enough to win the championship. I argue both these reasons are wrong. You say the 3 players we signed will not be good enough for the SPFL ,thats your opinon , how you know this as fact escapes me , you say its not sensible to sign these guys up for 3 years yet you also say its not right so sign free transfers , I think you are a wee bit confused as to what you want, the commercial or sporting interest of a free transfer is something that every club in the world now utilise as is the loan market , why we should bve any different is beyon me. I clearly say on the odd transfer this works not as a signing strategy . The chances of finding 7/8 players at the current recruitment level that will be good enough for our future plans is nonsense. If what you assert was true nobody would need to spend any cash we could just all sign free transfers and hit the same hieghts. [b]You again mistake opinion and fact. This is a debating site it is all opinion or an individuals understanding of facts as they are presented.Nobody can read the future. Opinions are formed from weighing the available information against historical data. Freebie signings in the majority will not be good enough. Common sense alone tells us the chances of building a team for near on zero that will be good enough to play in front of 50,000 never mind a rangers crowd is extremely unlikely if not daft. I also explain further reasoning again on common sense. When scrapping the bottom of the market financially it does not make financial sense when trying to build foundations for a quality future. This again is obvious. Cheap is cheap for a reason. It can neither be relied on or turned into diamonds with enough regularity to eccourage any belief in its success as a buisness strategy.[/b] You act as if this is a new idea we have already reaped the benefits of cheap freebie signings that we expected to flourish at this level how did it workout? And you end up with the usual dig at King , how many times guys like you need to be told that there is a share issue coming up is beyond me and gets tiresome . This is just pathetic. Are we not allowed to talk about anything to do with king without these usual crap analogies. The guy made a public promise for backing, it has nothing to do with liking the guy or not. Its to do with the facts as they are presented. How many times do you need to be told there is not a share issue coming up at this point or pencilled in for any date. Its still up in the air.How many times do you need to be told we do not need a share issue for them to invest? Again can you answer why it is the best policy for Rangers to wait until a share issue can be arranged while the transfer window closes and we are left with a squad worse than last season? Can you answer how do we build foundations for a better future without cash now? Are we just treading water until then? when do you think is the best time to start building and sorting the problems? six months from now? 12 months? or right now? I have made my opinion clear. The time is now the excuses for waiting hold no water whatsoever. Like I said your post is just a ramble of your opinions which contradict themselves , we have a management team that knows what they are looking for but you know better , why you didnt get the job is something we will all just have to live with I guess . The debate is not whether warburton knows what he is doing it is on whether we are giving him the tools needed to succeed and meet the levels targeted. but good try at deflection since i miss understand can you clear one thing up for me. I state that the current transfer levels being freebies and very very cheap acquisitions(£200k) is not good enough to attain our goals of large continuous crowds and european qualification within the next 3 years. So am i wrong in stating you must therefore believe one of two things? 1. the sigings level as it stands is good enough to achieve stated goals. 2. you do not know enough to form an opinion either way if its two that means you don't know enough to form an opinion but you know enough to know someone elses opinion is wrong. very clever think the difference between me and you is I try to form my opinions on the here and now, while you want to include the promised land that is always just around the next corner. Sorry mate and I am not being funny but I cant make head nor tail of what you posted , can you separate it out , everything is just jumbled together , I dont know what I am meant to respond to. The question at the bottom I can answer ,on 1 you nor I know if they are good enough , but since Mark Warburton has went out of his way to sign these guys early , he clearly believes they are and that they can improve them . On 2 your just being a prick And as for the here and now , only one of us is living in the here and now your living way way way in the past. Edited July 12, 2015 by rbr 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC 150 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) Strangely and worryingly, the stadium seating plan for buying season tickets online doesn't reflect the numbers we've been hearing at all. There's absolutely no way it's showing 25k+ seats taken. What a disturbing post, though well spotted Zapman.... Edited July 12, 2015 by SteveC 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trublusince1982 243 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Maybe you re-read what rbr actually wrote, since the reply above does not exactly reflect that you actually did in the first place. We are some 2,9 years away from the end result of our 3 year strategy and when there is no reason to splash cash on players if freebies and decent loans are available, why should we spend any money? Or do you think that large crowds will return if we sign a few 1m guys or the like? People will return when they see that Rangers is their Rangers again. Of course, the transfer window hasn't shut just yet and one can't actually tell whether we won't spend any money till the end of August. Reading your above reply makes you think that we need to spend money to get out of where we are, or else we are doomed? And as for Europe and Premiership challenges, we sure need to spend money to get there, but we have how many transfer windows to do so ... AFTER we gained promotion, hopefully next summer? no i have stayed true. Where we are is not just the championship its a far bigger picture that encompasses our 3 year goals. You don't build a weak spine then surround it with talent. That's absurd. These signings are the spine of the team. They are not getting replaced next year. For the spine of the team to be made up of cheap freebie players is not good enough and in my opinion will not meet our specified 3 year goals. Large consistent crowds,and euro football qualification,cup runs, championship title and to challenge celtic. I then answer the responses which are basically excuses for cheap players because they are for the championship with better standard down the road for various reasons. I argued the various reasons do not stand up under scrutiny.The reasons being, the level of league,they are good enough for the championship, why spend money to win the championship, we need a share issue, etc. There seems to be this feeling on here that these signings are not typical of what we can expect over the next 3 years and that some time soon we will start spending money to supplement these players. I say that is not what is happening, the signing of this standard added to the current squad will limit our spending ability over the next few years leaving us in a poor position. Basically the foundations are weak therefore the building will sink.Or if you prefer the spine is crooked so the body will not stand up under pressure If your asking me do i think this squad as it stands will win the league this coming season? I would say it will be close and we would most likely need to buy our way out come january. The squad as it stands is weaker than last season and severely lacking in both quality and strength.Do i think the signings of eustace and halliday and a right back will make a difference? it will help secure the championship but nothing more.Do I expect more signings than that this window? no. It looks like we will bring in 3/4 short term loans. The manager will make a difference on last year but i still dont think any manager can change the mentality of some of these players far enough. Law will continue to shy away and the likes of miller will remain past it and so on. Can the youth we have come in and make a huge difference? 50/50 at best. But this is a completely different argument than the standard of signing being good enough to build foundations around. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 What a disturbing post, though well spotted Zapman.... Not well spotted at all actually. Someone must have spiked my drink yesterday because I was talking shite. Season ticket sales are going great in all stands apart from the Broomloan where sales are really poor, presumably because folk are taking the opportunity to move out of the Broomloan so that they don't get moved when it eventually comes to Celtic games. A half decent indicator of how well sales are going is that there's only just over 800 seats left in the whole Copland stand. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 On 2 your just being a prick Come on rbr, you know we don't do personal insults here. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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