BlueMazza 0 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Part of building a new team is about team bonding is it not? I see no harm in a few drinks, provided it doesn't descend in to idiocy. The team need to gel and celebrating an emphatic win as your first competitive match is worth doing. None of them look smashed and so far have heard nothing about the night going out of hand or in to the wee hours. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMc 2,463 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 They're supposed to be athletes. If they applied themselves in the same way as Murray or Hoy, then they'd be so much fitter and successful in their careers. Scottish society has a drinking problem, but it should not then follow that our 'athletes' be given free reign to so as they please, or be given excuses. I don't accept that a so-called 'professional athlete' should be allowed to drink and eat as they please. If they are not applying themselves 100%, then they're amateurs. Has anyone said they should be "allowed to drink and eat as they please"? Likewise "be given free reign to so as they please"? By all means criticise but criticise what's actually been said not something that no one thinks is right. If you don't think there are rules in place regarding diets, fitness levels, rest and recuperation and what is acceptable and when, then you've not been paying attention. Professional footballer's lives are heavily regulated, even Rangers players. The suggestion that having a few beers will somehow makes them less professional or poorer players is ignorant nonsense. They aren't tennis players or cyclists. Those are largely individual sports, football is a team sport, the nuances are important. Team spirit and camaraderie are vital in team sport, the sort of single-minded focus required in tennis and track cycling simply isn't transferable to any team sport. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gribz 743 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) They're supposed to be athletes. If they applied themselves in the same way as Murray or Hoy, then they'd be so much fitter and successful in their careers. Scottish society has a drinking problem, but it should not then follow that our 'athletes' be given free reign to so as they please, or be given excuses. I don't accept that a so-called 'professional athlete' should be allowed to drink and eat as they please. If they are not applying themselves 100%, then they're amateurs. I wouldn't say its a drinking problem, its a behavioural problem. Ive been to many places where drinking doesn't get out of hand. But then again its not just Scottish Society, there are other places with the same behaviour. But on topic Ive no problem if Warburton has said to them go out and have 3 or 4 drinks but be home by 11pm and report to training Monday morning. The photo actually looks good, they are all sitting minding their own business with smiles on their faces in a small corner causing no trouble. Edited July 27, 2015 by Gribz 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 They're supposed to be athletes. If they applied themselves in the same way as Murray or Hoy, then they'd be so much fitter and successful in their careers. Scottish society has a drinking problem, but it should not then follow that our 'athletes' be given free reign to so as they please, or be given excuses. I don't accept that a so-called 'professional athlete' should be allowed to drink and eat as they please. If they are not applying themselves 100%, then they're amateurs. Your whole post is a very simplistic and seems counter intuitive to just about everything I've learned in life. Let's even start with Murray, you seem to like to cherry pick your examples. Let's even assume he passes your impossible description of professionalism, is there not other British tennis players doing similar training and abstinence (if he actually does that) to what he does? How successful are they? I don't seem many in the top 100. Why is someone who applies himself to this mythical 100% not as successful as a guy like Gascoigne and many other top sportsmen? What is your expertise or even references in the field of sports and the effects of alcohol that even suggests having zero alcohol is optimal? I think there are enough successful people in the world who drink to prove it's not exactly an obvious inhibitor to success and it's possible it could help. Just look at Hunt and Lauda. The most succesful Nottingham Forest team of all time were apparently ordered to have a drink before each game. Humans are pretty complex entities and knowledge of this kind of stuff is pretty scarce and theories changing all the time - with alcohol often considered beneficial in moderate doses. And we also have to consider the psychological effects. Denial has always made people crave things more and actually seems to tend to make people binge. Even just having a substance to raise your spirits has been seen as beneficial to mental well being for thousands of years and as such is woven into the fabric of our society. Some diets now have cheat days as the thinking is that not only does this stop you going into famine mode, it also stops you over craving things and abandoning the diet, as well as making it far more tolerable long term, as nothing is denied for more than a week. That's because psychologically, compliance is more important than effectiveness of following something "100%". I think your definition of professionalism is very naive and pretty much suggests it's something that is impossible to achieve, therefore we're all amateurs, rendering the term almost meaningless. It seems to me that no-one can apply themselves 100% all the time, and if they try you are likely to get some kind of burnout. The irony is that you don't even do that with an engine. You might think that because they are "professionals" they should be able to control themselves 100% but there is no-one in the world that does that. How many top businessmen or politicians are there that can't control their diet and are therefore overweight? It seems to me, the answer as always and which applies to the rest of us, is in a person's ability. Maybe you can be a better player/employee by living like a monk, but if you'd rather be less successful and have a life, you can maybe choose your level. In football even if that might mean playing for Rangers in the Scottish second tier rather than a regular CL semi-finalist but then that's your choice, you will end up at your natural level - maybe that's Falkirk or Forfar. The question is not whether a player has a drink now and again, or a pack of Monstermunch, or if he's a couple of inches below average, it's about whether he's good enough for the level of your team despite all his habits and physical attributes,. But in the end, there is not much to suggest that living like a monk helps, and there is much evidence that actually points in the opposite direction. We need to stop thinking we're all top experts in football management and training, and then making snap, harsh judgements on all aspects of our players lives - or go out and manage a team and prove we do know better. Lots of managers have tried to micro manage players and failed - I think DA was one of them. Players are not machines, they are human, and that requires a lot more complex handling. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Barristan Selmy 222 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Part of building a new team is about team bonding is it not? I see no harm in a few drinks, provided it doesn't descend in to idiocy. The team need to gel and celebrating an emphatic win as your first competitive match is worth doing. None of them look smashed and so far have heard nothing about the night going out of hand or in to the wee hours. Remind me the last time Scotland reached a major tournament? Remind me the last time England came close to winning one? I think it's quite clear our approach doesn't work and nutrition/conditioning is a key part of that. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gribz 743 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Remind me the last time Scotland reached a major tournament? Remind me the last time England came close to winning one? I think it's quite clear our approach doesn't work and nutrition/conditioning is a key part of that. That has nothing to do with it. Remind me the last time Australia won or came close to winning a Rugby World cup? Not too long ago! And the drinking culture in Australia is on par with the UK. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Barristan Selmy 222 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 That has nothing to do with it. Remind me the last time Australia won or came close to winning a Rugby World cup? Not too long ago! And the drinking culture in Australia is on par with the UK. I know nothing about rugby whatsoever so I can't help you there. If you think nutrition/conditioning has nothing to do with success in football then I think we should just leave it there. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gribz 743 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) I know nothing about rugby whatsoever so I can't help you there. If you think nutrition/conditioning has nothing to do with success in football then I think we should just leave it there. Eh??? You have lost me. I am saying its a culture issue and not a sporting one. Having a few drinks has absolutely no impact on success. George Best and Paul Gascoigne weren't exactly Tee Total. Are you saying that professionals live on drink and don't do the 'right' things 6 out of 7 days? Edited July 27, 2015 by Gribz 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Barristan Selmy 222 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Has anyone said they should be "allowed to drink and eat as they please"? Likewise "be given free reign to so as they please"? By all means criticise but criticise what's actually been said not something that no one thinks is right. If you don't think there are rules in place regarding diets, fitness levels, rest and recuperation and what is acceptable and when, then you've not been paying attention. Professional footballer's lives are heavily regulated, even Rangers players. The suggestion that having a few beers will somehow makes them less professional or poorer players is ignorant nonsense. They aren't tennis players or cyclists. Those are largely individual sports, football is a team sport, the nuances are important. Team spirit and camaraderie are vital in team sport, the sort of single-minded focus required in tennis and track cycling simply isn't transferable to any team sport. Yeah, I'm sure going out on the lash was a key part of Barcelona's preparation last season for the Champions League final . Also: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/3540701.stm Wenger said: "We don't drink together as a group, and I don't see how a player who drinks regularly can survive in football. "To play at the top level you have to have control over your life and part of that is to do with mental strength." Edited July 27, 2015 by Ser Barristan Selmy 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Barristan Selmy 222 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Eh??? You have lost me. I am saying its a culture issue and not a sporting one. Having a few drinks has absolutely no impact on success. George Best and Paul Gascoigne weren't exactly Tee Total. Are you saying that professionals live on drink and don't do the 'right' things 6 out of 7 days? Was George Best not way past his best by 30? Gazza is the perfect example of what drink can do - a potential world class player who ended up playing in the SPL, Everton and Boro. It's fair to say his talents should have seen him performing at a much higher level than that. What I am saying is that British footballers are behind continental players in attitudes, nutrition/conditioning etc, with alcohol being a prevalent part of that. I know some young pros here who drink, one who played for us, and when they go out it certainly isn't 'one or two' drinks. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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