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Referendum on membership of the European Union


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If the UK leaves the EU then Scotland is out of the EU too. And an independent Scotland would not get automatic re-entry as it would require consent from all countries with the likes of Spain and others likely to vote against.

The harsh reality is that Scotland is UK dependent on the Barnett formula as it spends about £10billion more than it raises in taxes. And if it got independence it has been made clear Scotland would not use sterling as its currency as Westminster wouldn't allow the B of E as its central bank/ lender of last resort.

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Best to take charge of your own destiny the eu is falling apart even the eu immigration minister has said Europe can take no more migrants as for another referendum I think the folk in Scotland have woke up in the past 18 months to see this lot couldn't run a bat never mind a country we will always be part of the uk . and a united kingdom trading with the world and not tied to the European master race of Germany and the odious French .

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Martin Kettle argues that the United Kingdom leaving the European Union would be bad new for the SNP.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/25/brexit-vote-scotland-out-uk-scottish-independence

 

A short report on research that suggests 60% of Scots are Eurosceptics.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/24/euroscepticism-scotland-record-high

 

Thanks for those. They've certainly made me aware that Scotland is not as pro-EU as the SNP would have us believe -- more frustrating rhetoric. It shouldn't be part of the equation, but it was on my mind. I'm certainly coming round to the leave side; or at least I'm not as concerned as I was.

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I can see I'm in a minority here, but I'm for the EU.

 

It seems to me, in a broad sense, that the arguments for and against are similar to the in and out arguments of our own independence referendum.

 

The arguments for leaving mostly concentrate on the poor governance and decision-making of the Union leadership - the implication being that we'd able to elect "better" (more economically astute, more morally upstanding, or whatever) politicians as leaders if we were separate.

The pro-Union arguments attempt to highlight the impact of losing out on the (often-taken-for-granted) benefits that co-operation brings - and these points are then dismissed as scare-mongering by the separatists.

 

IMHO, just as the prospects for Scotland are more secure and prosperous as part of a well-governed UK, so the prospects for the UK are more secure and prosperous as part of a well-governed EU. I don't think that recent failings of either UK or EU leadership make either union conceptually bad. Both need some measure of reform and reorganisation, but I think we'll be worse-off long-term if we were to ditch either completely.

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The German finance minister, Wolfgang Schauble, recently made this contribution to the debate:

 

We would have years of the most difficult negotiations, which would be very difficult for the EU as well. And for years we would have such insecurity that would be a poison to the economy in the UK, the European continent and for the global economy as well.

 

A couple of things occurred to me on hearing this. Firstly, I wonder why the negotiations have to be so difficult. Europe and the U.K. would both have significant interests in establishing a new trading relationship as soon as possible. Is it possible that the negotiations would be made difficult out of spite and if that is the case then you have to wonder what kind of organisation you are dealing with. Secondly, the suggestion seems to be that we are intractably entangled in a monolithic organisation. Will it become more difficult to leave as we become more entangled as time goes on? I'm not sure that's a great idea given the pace of change that we see today. Is it not better to be flexible?

 

The reason for his comments are clear; to sow seeds of uncertainty, fear and doubt. I think that it can easily be interpreted as another reason to leave.

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  • 2 months later...

Some interesting poll data here.

 

MOST Scots believe Nicola Sturgeon should not call a second Scottish independence referendum if Scotland is dragged out of the EU against its will, an exclusive poll for Scotland on Sunday suggests.

 

The ICM survey found that the electorate’s appetite for a post-Brexit Scottish independence poll is waning, with 48 per cent saying they are against an indyref 2
in those circumstances compared with 44 per cent in favour of going to the country again. When the eight per cent who did not express a view were excluded, the poll found that 52 per cent are against a post-Brexit referendum as opposed to the 48 per cent who are for it.

 

The poll of 1,000 adults contrasted with findings from a similar survey carried out for Scotland on Sunday in March when the position was reversed. Two months ago a majority of Scots (52 per cent) said they would like to see another independence referendum in the aftermath of Brexit.

 

Although the SNP is campaigning to remain in Europe, Sturgeon has said indyref 2 could be triggered if next month’s EU referendum sees Scotland vote to stay, but forced to leave because the rest of the UK decides otherwise.

 

When people were asked how they would vote in a second referendum, there was more discouraging news for the SNP. The pollsters found that No votes (47 per cent) would outnumber Yes votes (44 per cent).

 

Removing the eight per cent “don’t knows” from the equation saw support for a No vote reach 51.6 per cent, compared with the 48.4 per cent who said they would support independence

 

The figures showed a marked reduction in support for post-Brexit Scottish independence from ICM’s March poll, which showed a 53 per cent majority for breaking up the UK when “don’t knows” were excluded.

 

The findings will come as a blow for Sturgeon, who knows that a second defeat in an independence referendum would probably kill off her party’s independence dream for the foreseeable future.

 

The declining support for independence came on the back of the SNP’s failure to win an overall majority in the Scottish Parliament elections earlier this month.

 

The poll also showed that a majority of Scots (51 per cent) believe there should not be another independence referendum within the next five years regardless of the outcome of the EU vote. Thirty-nine per cent took the opposite view and thought there should be one, while 10 per cent didn’t know.

 

Conservative shadow cabinet secretary for the constitution Adam Tomkins said: “This is an interesting poll and the idea that Scotland’s place in the United Kingdom is in some way dependent on Britain’s membership of the EU is a bizarre concept. With the SNP about to prepare a fresh drive for independence, the Scottish Conservatives will be strong in opposition and stand up for our place in the UK.”

 

A Labour spokesman said: “All the SNP seem interested in is arguing about what might happen if the UK votes to leave the EU, but this poll shows that, despite what Nicola Sturgeon says, a majority of people across Scotland would still be in favour of remaining part of the UK.”

 

Other findings of the poll included a narrow majority in favour of keeping Trident, despite the SNP and Scottish Labour wanting rid of the nuclear weapons housed at the Faslane naval base.

 

The poll showed that 43 per cent of those questioned wanted the missiles kept on the Clyde, compared with 42 per cent who favoured disarmament (14 per cent were undecided).

 

The SNP has failed to keep its promise to replace council tax, but most Scots (52 per cent) believe this should be replaced by a fairer system.

 

That was opposed by 37 per cent who thought the existing system was fair and 11 per cent who didn’t know.

 

Fifty-one per cent were against fracking.

 

Sturgeon has signalled that her education reforms could see schools come out of local authority control. Slightly more people (32 per cent) opposed this than supported it (29 per cent).

 

On tax there was support for raising the top rate of income tax to 50 pence – a proposal put forward by Labour during the Scottish election. While Labour’s other policy of raising income tax by a penny in other bands received slightly more support than opposition.

 

http://www.scotsman.com/news/most-scots-against-indyref2-if-britain-leaves-eu-poll-1-4134751

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I'm voting to leave. Cameron/Osborne etc would have you believe everything would crash down around our ears, even though a few months back, he was prepared to leave if he didn't achieve even the small concessions he did get in the so called "re-negotiation". Does he think for a minute, Volkswagen, BMW, Renault or Peugeot taking the car industry alone would want any barriers to selling in Europe's second largest economy? They would do everything possible to make sure their governments maintained trade! These scare stories coming from the Remain side are just amazing, though sadly it will persuade some to keep the status quo and keep sending the £300m a week into Brussels.

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