The Pre-Summer-2017 transfer rumours and hearsay all inclusive Thread

[colinstein 294]

And yet a number of these same players are now excelling in England. Whatever was wrong it wasn't all down to 'dumplings'

 

they are not playing against 10 men behind the ball

[Uilleam 5,393]

And yet a number of these same players are now excelling in England. Whatever was wrong it wasn't all down to 'dumplings'

 

Tell me that at the end of the season..........

[boabie 230]

Tell me that at the end of the season..........

 

Kris Boyd springs immediately to mind.

[RANGERRAB 3,248]

I genuinely believe we're significantly improved this season compared to last season. Caixinha has recruited far better quality than MW did this time last year

 

That said I do think we're rather short in numbers & alternatives in one or two areas. CB for one.

[boabie 230]

I genuinely believe we're significantly improved this season compared to last season. Caixinha has recruited far better quality than MW did this time last year

 

That said I do think we're rather short in numbers & alternatives in one or two areas. CB for one.

 

I for one couldn't agree more.

[der Berliner 3,207]

None of that actually matters when someone is saying we got humiliated. We did. It is a fact, stop trying to hide from it.

 

Rather peculiar way of turning the argument. I give reasons for the humiliation we suffered - no more , no less - while dismissing the argument that we had "a squad full of dumplings". You take the simplistic "nothing else matters" route, which quenches any reasonable debate. I'll leave it at that, as we are well off topic now.

 

NB: Pretty disappointing that an admin sees fit to laud trolling.

[craig 5,195]

Rather peculiar way of turning the argument. I give reasons for the humiliation we suffered - no more , no less - while dismissing the argument that we had "a squad full of dumplings". You take the simplistic "nothing else matters" route, which quenches any reasonable debate. I'll leave it at that, as we are well off topic now.

 

NB: Pretty disappointing that an admin sees fit to laud trolling.

 

1. I didn't turn the argument

2. You call it "reasons for humiliation" whilst most others would call it "excuses".

3. We were humiliated against Celtic - no more, no less, as you like to say. If you wish to provide "reasons" then so be it. But none of those reasons will actually alter the fact we were humiliated. Had we had a player or two sent off, then fine. But we played 11 v 11 and got soundly pumped in almost all OF games last season. As I said, nothing else really does matter, because that is the sorry truth of last season against them.

4. I wasn't the one that took us off topic, that was others - and you also contributed before I actually even joined.

5. It doesn't "quench any reasonable debate" at all. If you wish to disagree say so - say why you disagree and debate it. But instead you just say you will "leave it at that".

 

If you or anyone wishes to make excuses for us being pumped by Celtic that is your prerogative - but you can't expect everyone else to sit idly by and accept it if they believe it to be untrue. You can expect to be called out on it.

 

If you had justified us getting beaten by Hibs the other week that is something I think almost everyone would agree with you on because there were so many factors at play like a sending off, the ref being garbage and Hibs not having at least one player sent off when they should have had - but we played Celtic with 11 v 11 (aside from the 1st drubbing at Celtic Park where Senderos was sent off, and we were already 3-1 down at the time) and got pumped. I hate to say it as much as the next person - but you can't improve unless you accept your failings.

 

Can you explain who is trolling please - thanks for the link to wiki, not that I feel I needed it. I don't think anyone was being inflammatory. And if you are talking of taking the discussion off topic then pretty much every person in this forum has done that over the duration, including yourself.

 

And I am not lauding trolling. despite what you say.

Edited September 6, 2017 by craig

[pete 2,494]

It is a bit like saying I only painted it black because I had no white paint. That doesn't make it any less black.

[der Berliner 3,207]

1. I didn't turn the argument

 

From the squad full of dumplings we went to me excusing our defeat. Perhaps I should be even more explicit.

 

2. You call it "reasons for humiliation" whilst most others would call it "excuses".

 

Which kills reasonable debate.

 

3. We were humiliated against Celtic - no more, no less, as you like to say. If you wish to provide "reasons" then so be it. But none of those reasons will actually alter the fact we were humiliated. Had we had a player or two sent off, then fine. But we played 11 v 11 and got soundly pumped in almost all OF games last season. As I said, nothing else really does matter, because that is the sorry truth of last season against them.

 

Yep, you dismiss the reasons so we can stop debating the why's of that defeat. Consequently, by that logic and the argument which led to this, the team that lost 6-2 under Advocaat were dumplings too. ... I assume you see the shortfall of dismissing the reasons I gave above?

 

4. I wasn't the one that took us off topic, that was others - and you also contributed before I actually even joined.

 

I merely pointed out that I wish to bow out of it.

 

5. It doesn't "quench any reasonable debate" at all. If you wish to disagree say so - say why you disagree and debate it. But instead you just say you will "leave it at that".

 

Maybe because we had similar debates after both games already and there is no further need to do it again? Which I essentially offered.

 

If you or anyone wishes to make excuses for us being pumped by Celtic that is your prerogative - but you can't expect everyone else to sit idly by and accept it if they believe it to be untrue. You can expect to be called out on it.

 

But people don't sit idly by, they usually, as above, just lambaste players and manager alike while quenching any reasonable debate about how it came to these defeats (apart from us having only gutless useless tossers shaming the Gersey, of course) by swinging the excuse club.

 

If you had justified us getting beaten by Hibs the other week that is something I think almost everyone would agree with you on because there were so many factors at play like a sending off, the ref being garbage and Hibs not having at least one player sent off when they should have had - but we played Celtic with 11 v 11 (aside from the 1st drubbing at Celtic Park where Senderos was sent off, and we were already 3-1 down at the time) and got pumped. I hate to say it as much as the next person - but you can't improve unless you accept your failings.

 

Ahem ... accept our failings? Like ... giving reasons why we were hammered? It's what I did. Like ... sacking players and buying new ones? It's what PC did.

He couldn't do much about refs being utter idiots or - in case of the Ibrox defeat - accepting that the side who beat us was every inch the 30m team horsing one which cost 3m. A team flying, in stark contrast to ours at the time. How often did that happen in our history of OF wins and defeats though? Apparently, people are oblivious to any sort of reasonable argument or simply want not fathom the circumstances. And BTW, none of the reasons I gave actually "excuse" our humiliation. It simply outlines why it happened and - perhaps - by what likelihood it may happen again.

 

Can you explain who is trolling please - thanks for the link to wiki, not that I feel I needed it. I don't think anyone was being inflammatory. And if you are talking of taking the discussion off topic then pretty much every person in this forum has done that over the duration, including yourself.

 

And I am not lauding trolling. despite what you say.

 

Who then agreed to post 2350? RS is at it for months.

[craig 5,195]

It's pointless continuing dB.

 

You have your stance which is to defend everything at the club - from the manager to the players to the board. And whilst that is laudable it also is dangerous. We have seen what happens when we defend the wrong people or defend the indefensible. And that is not pointing a finger at you because I myself tried to defend Charles Green, for example. But when we are wrong it is important to admit it, otherwise we cant improve from it.

 

The same can be said of managers - I defended Ally until it was impossible to do so - and it is important to accept he was a poor manager. Yes, he had extenuating circumstances - but in the cold light of day he was still a poor manager who missed a great opportunity to NOT spend tons of money, create an open brand of football given we were in the lower leagues, and bleed in youngsters. He chose not to, as was his prerogative - but it is important to accept he was a poor manager.

 

Same goes for players. Yes, Celtic have spent far, far more on their squad than we have. However, in the 5-1 thumping at Ibrox we didn't even look prepared to fight for the jersey. No amount of money being spent should be able to buy you any more by way of drive, commitment and desire - yet the Celtic players had it in abundance whilst we didn't. If we defend that, then we run the risk of accepting mediocrity - something we should never do at Rangers.

 

If you check back on my posts on the subject you will see that I personally have never called our players dumplings. However, I DO believe we were humiliated - and whilst you choose to find "reasons" (as I said, others will call it "excuses") I don't. I think that those players collectively need to look in the mirror and ask if they gave everything they had and were beaten by the better team. I'm sure they will accept they were beaten by the better team but answering the question of whether they gave their all may be more difficult for them to answer.

 

And less than 100% effort should never be acceptable at our club. That 5-1 humiliation looked like players had simply given up. If you choose to defend it, be my guest. But it is also dangerous to accept it.

 

I don't think rangers_syntax was trolling in post #2350 - I think it is well known on Gersnet that you defend the club, Board, management, players at all costs. You always defend it - indeed, in the last 5 years I think the only thing or person you haven't defended is Kyle Hutton - which shows how far back one would need to go to find you criticizing. Which is fine. But it doesn't make rangers_syntax's post trolling, more an observation of a truth - and I thought it was light-hearted. If you don't then you know where the "report" button is