der Berliner 3,231 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 (edited) ...thing is, a loan from bank is also money you don't have at a very specific point in time, like the Yahoos' 20odd million loan from Coop, which they have not repaid for ages after it has been put in place by McCann. Thus, at the time, they burned money they don't have and financed a side able to challenge us on the basis of a very soft and unusual loan. While this does not "help" us in this case, it would sure be a valuable argument when it comes to financial doping, sporting integrity, and title stripping. Edited June 29, 2017 by der Berliner 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,231 Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 An FFer's take on this (BearinaBlueHose) Here is a friends of mines take on it i repeat his background. Edinburgh born stays in london works for Deloitte. Not a football fan . Was flabbergasted at the last decision Notes that all people previous whos judgement counted were on Murray group side . Its been the source of many jokes the last decision in the tax world as common sense is not tax law. In law at the time its a good scheme, loopholes then closed . Desperate attempt by hmrc to bring claims for billions against many other companies. Not a vendetta but was seen as winable by hmrc in pursuit of others Politically a lot at stake, huge amount of chat about it . His estimate that this case has cost hmrc in the region of 10/12 million to pursue. You will not find a senior tax accounting partnership anywhere who think hmrc is right. He says the jig is up if Murray group are found liable as it goes against all known fact and fairness. This has always been his stance Interestingly, he says many senior companies top accountants are waiting on this as the traffic if its not a win for murray could be so massive they wont be able to cope. http://forum.followfollow.com/showthread.php?1113215-BTC-final-verdict-next-Wednesday-(27-Viewing)&p=25418015#post25418015 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walterbear 557 Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 An FFer's take on this (BearinaBlueHose) http://forum.followfollow.com/showthread.php?1113215-BTC-final-verdict-next-Wednesday-(27-Viewing)&p=25418015#post25418015 He's not correct on a key part dB. The previous peoples judgement which counts was not all in favour of Murray. 3 judges were unanimous against him at the CoS and in the upper tier it was 2-1. The reason in respect of tax law was interpreting the trust as 'redirection of earnings' and there was case law to back that up which had not been used at previous hearings. It was not just 'common sense'. I seriously doubt whether an unknown bloke working for Deloitte has a greater grasp of the law than senior judges. The side letters are the fly in the ointment from Murrays perspective. These are basically implying the trust is earnings according to HMRC. Will be interesting to listen in on Wednesday but I'm prepared for the howling lunatics. Let's face it our main interest is title stripping and I think there are good arguments against that course of action irrespective of the judgement (I am sure there will be a thread on it!). How anyone can say we had an unfair sporting advantage based on doing something we were advised was legal at the time is not a sustainable argument to me. Everyone knew we were doing it and there was no intention to deceive so it isn't cheating. It's like Real Madrid declaring they are legally paying their players more than anyone else - no one would say they were cheating. I dont think we should fear this it will just be a pain in the erse. My prediction is they will uphold the judgement unless Thornhills 'rabbit' works but that looked like a last desperate effort tbh. Hope I'm abysmally wrong and will happily take a pasting on here if I am ? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,231 Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Rather not point at Spanish teams, who are billions in the red with the taxman, but the state deferred payment to 2020 or the like (just before slipping under the Euro protection umbrella), as it was important to the nation that football was not going against the wall. Obviously, no word from UEFA about sporting advantages, financial fair play et al. The biggest bone of contention would be that IF there is any debate about those days and titles won, who will call for it and who will feature on the tribunal/comission etc.pp.. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7 5,130 Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 To be honest, as a layman, the payments to the Trust look like taxable wages. What's the point otherwise? Having said that, the forfeiture of titles is an illogical consequence just as it will be if another club is eventually run to earth for attempting to cover up crime. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1964 10,409 Posted July 4, 2017 Author Share Posted July 4, 2017 Big Tax Case judgement will be published online on Wednesday https://www.supremecourt.uk/news/future-judgments.html 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,231 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 While Alex Thomson is already in the mood to whip up some stuff re title stripping, as he didn't grasp that a lost EBT case does not mean we did something illegal or unlawful, but have to repay taxes due for an badly administered tax avoidance scheme, one FFer said this in reply to another: over the years theres been so much shit thrown about so i'll keep it simplewhat happens if we lose it how does it impact the club now ******* pornography, wailing, gnashing of teeth, frothing at the mouth. Apoplectic frenzy filled bile, which , in essence, will mean the square root of feck all . Pretty much an average day, for your brain dead moon howler. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC 150 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 (edited) While Alex Thomson is already in the mood to whip up some stuff re title stripping, as he didn't grasp that a lost EBT case does not mean we did something illegal or unlawful, but have to repay taxes due for an badly administered tax avoidance scheme, one FFer said this in reply to another: If we lose, he will be in the vast majority for so thinking. I find nothing to laugh about in this situation, whatever happens, but if we lose all hell will break lose. Actually, same if we win. Either way, it will not be funny. Edited July 4, 2017 by SteveC 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,231 Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 BDO losing the EBT would round the week off then. Mighty kick in the teeth on all frontiers. Well, 30odd mins to go. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveC 150 Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) BDO losing the EBT would round the week off then. Mighty kick in the teeth on all frontiers. Well, 30odd mins to go. "teeth" isn't the plural body parts that most readily springs to mind, here. We risk going into the season under as dark and ominous a cloud as you could imagine. What a freaking difference a week makes. Edited July 5, 2017 by SteveC 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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