gersnet article (image) Green, Whyte and the Never-ending Story

[Gaffer 1,665]

I really respect the author of this article as he's positioned the questions very well, and suggested some areas for further focus.  I also really appreciate the intent of those who take steps to get answers to what went on.  Having said that, for me it's now a case of doing two things.  The first is to take steps to ensure it doesn't happen again, and hence why I pay into Club 1872.  The second is to put our energies into returning our club back to the top of Scottish football.  I can't even begin to imagine the amount of energy these detractors had to put in to cause the problems for our club, and I personally don't want to waste any energy trying to unravel it all.  The best way to return the favour is for us to win 55.  I know we are all angry with what happened but I'm not sure what will be achieved by wasting our time tying to work out leaks, etc.  I think the fact remains that an extremely well orchestrated group of people tried to kill us and failed, because we are the people.

[Gonzo79 13,553]

Great post, Gaffer!  Never let them forget it either.  

[Bearman 9]

Brilliant article!

 

Don't forget the bastards are still out there determined to finish us off!

[RANGERRAB 3,253]

On 6 March 2018 at 16:40, Germinal said:

While others more than played their part, it was HMRC which devastated our club.

 

Good luck getting information out of that body.

 

 

HMRC's role throughout has to be questioned. No doubt about that & whether there was a rogue anti-Rangers element at work within HMRC. And I genuinely believe that their 'victory' at the SC has presented them with a major problem now they will have to pursue all other EBT's. Do they have the resources to do this ? Perhaps it would have better suited HMRC to lose at the SC.

 

But don't forget about LBG. Rangers bank debt was just 3 p.c of the MIH debt butt LBG pressurised SDM to sell Rangers. You have to question their motives behind this. And maybe who was behind this & I don't believe it was the lackey Shanks at Whyte's trial.

 

 

 

 

[D'Artagnan 173]

One of the best reads in a long time, excellent article.

 

During my pursuit of HMRC one of the most astounding facts I came across was the fact that in one case (name escapes me unfortunately) was that they actually bought stolen property as they believed it contained evidence which strengthened their case. Anyone who doubts the author's assertion that  persons within HMRC may have acted improperly to assist with the case against Rangers is, imo. naive.

 

Sue Walton, head of HMRC's anti-avoidance group writing in the Tax Journal 21 April 2011:

 

“To recap then, HMRC’s approach to compliance is, first and foremost, to minimise the need for enforcement – it is in everyone’s interests to do that. But where a risk of non-compliance is identified, we aim to detect that as early as possible and resolve it as quickly as we can.”

 

You have to wonder why it took them 9 months to act on Whyte's failure over PAYE at Rangers - particularly when they were already pursuing him for millions over an anlogous episode with a previous company.

[pete 2,494]

15 hours ago, Darthter said:

I would agree that they were the ultimate root of the problem.....

Murray wanted to sell, but no-one would buy with the EBT case hanging over everything.  Reports noted that Murray had offered circa £11m to HMRC to settle the tax penalty - this was rejected as they were determined to pursue "the bigger fish".  As a result, HMRC will receive significantly less than that £11m offer, and to date has there been any "big name" wins for HMRC in their battle against EBT's???  Also, the "public coffers" have had to shell out an awful lot more in their pursuit of RFC, than was actually owed.

It will now be interesting to see if HMRC do go after other clubs as was their reasoning for going after Rangers

[Gaffer 1,665]

This was the report from back in March I think last year.

 

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10794963/premier-league-and-championship-clubs-and-players-may-face-huge-tax-bills

 

HM Revenue & Customs' demands are expected to reach around £100m

Professional football clubs and their players - past and present - may face bankruptcy over the non-payment of taxes, which could total up to £100m.

A legal test case, scheduled for the Supreme Court in March, will see Scottish Premiership club Rangers and HM Revenue and Customs lock horns on March 15.

Victory for HMRC is expected to prompt a wave of aggressive tax demands to professional football clubs across the UK, while rugby union and rugby league clubs may also be affected.

The case centres on the use of Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs), which the Revenue suggests have allowed clubs and players to avoid paying tax on wages, dating as far back as 1999.

If HMRC win the case they will demand income tax, PAYE and National Insurance payments, plus interest - and demands are expected to reach close to £100m.

There is no upper limit on the sums sought by HMRC; clubs could be hit with Accelerated Payment Notices (APNs) immediately and would have 90 days to either contest the demands or pay up.

The scale of the crisis is difficult to judge as the use of EBTs is often not made public.

Andy Wood, a tax expert and director at Enterprise Tax Consultants has told Sky Sports News HQ that EBTs were widely used, with some players receiving as much as 50 per cent of their wages via the schemes.

He said: "EBTs were a staple diet in professional football for more than a decade; in particular between 1999 and 2010.

"The vast majority of Premier League clubs, plus more than half of clubs in the Championship, were using EBTs to help pay their players. Most of those loans are still outstanding."

Some of football's leading clubs have already paid HMRC officials in order to avoid being hit with large income tax demands, and several clubs are understood to have reached private settlements with HMRC in recent months due to concerns about its investigations into EBTs.

Wood has been involved in helping one club reach a six-figure agreement with HMRC in relation to the affairs of one senior official and was aware of "five or six" other such deals being struck.

Other Premier League clubs are understood to have recently received hefty tax demands after disclosing their own use of EBTs between 1999 and the present day.

If HMRC lose the Supreme Court battle in March, however, it is understood the clubs will escape further investigation, with attentions turning instead to the players themselves.

This is likely to cause exaggerated problems for retired players who benefited from EBTs but are no longer able to generate funds needed to pay.

Wood added that HMRC's pursuit of what it regarded as the abuse of EBTs could see some of football's biggest names facing bankruptcy as a result of big tax demands.

He said: "Although most of the immediate financial burden rests with clubs which have put these schemes in place, players who have taken loans from the trusts may not be spared, as an imminent change in the law would require them to pay tax on monies not repaid by 2019.

"Being asked to stump up large sums may come as a shock for players, especially those in retirement who do not have the earning capacity which they once might have had. Some might even be forced into bankruptcy if they can't meet those demands.

"I have been in discussions with a number of football, rugby union and rugby league clubs regarding their remuneration schemes. They are now all too aware about how the process entails keeping both star players and the taxman happy."

An HMRC spokesperson has told Sky Sports News HQ: "HMRC does not do deals and we don't settle for less tax from EBTs than we could get from going to court.

"HMRC is committed to delivering a level playing field for all taxpayers, ensuring those who have used these schemes don't derive any long term advantage over those who play by the rules."

 

Note the part about "HMRC does not do deals".  Interesting!!!  I expect that to be adhered to then when they go to the majority of the EPL's clubs and beyond.

 

Edited March 7, 2018 by Gaffer

[Gaffer 1,665]

I find two other things interesting about this.

 

1.  £100m is stated.  Really?!?  Given the amount of money down there, I'd expect that to be £100m per club, not in total.

 

2.  Why is there absolutely nothing in the press about these investigations into English clubs now?  Has HMRC continued to investigate, or has a deal been done?

[Darthter 542]

51 minutes ago, pete said:

It will now be interesting to see if HMRC do go after other clubs as was their reasoning for going after Rangers

Exactly...but I believe it wasn't just football clubs that were in the scopes, it was ANY employer using EBTs in a similar manner to us.  I've no doubt that any cases will not be as widely covered in the media, as they should be nothing more than routine now.  Also, by proving their point in the highest court in the land, many cases will be resolved out of court.  From memory, the whole thing was around penalty charges, rather than "non-payment".  RFC claiming that the penalty charges were far too steep.

 

As for a highly detailed & wide ranging conspiracy to bring down RFC....REALLY???  This isn't a Jimmy Bond film, with a crazy megalomaniac trying to bring down Govts.  Do folk honestly believe that all the different factions - media, SFA, SPL, HMRC Scot Gov, UK Gov, Police, Lawyers, Ind. Journo's - were all connecting into a weekly skype call to provide updates on their progress???

 

No...it was simply a case of those who hate the club seizing on an opportunity.  Wrt HMRC, I would assume that there were many, many folk involved in the procurement & analysis of all the information, most of whom would have been lowly office clerks & admin assistants.  It wouldn't take much for a journo to slip them a few quid to get inside info.   

 

With the SFA/SPL, I put it down to nothing more that sheer incompetence, possibly driven by certain senior figures within those organisations, who spotted an opportunity to adjust a "natural balance" between the 2 Glasgow teams.

 

The media & Journos....I put it primarily down to laziness.  The whole thing provided them with easy, sensational headlines for years....those headlines were rarely backed up with any real content within the text.

 

Governments, lawyers & Police....what would they stand to gain by putting RFC to the wall?  Absolutely nothing, so why colude to bring down a football club which is a vital hub in the community, provides jobs & contributes to the countries economy.

 

IMHO, it was HMRC's actions that brought about the problems, the rest were nothing more than opportunistic vultures, picking apart the remains whenever they could.

[DMAA 3,603]

The decision to sell to Whyte without due diligence having been done on him is surely the turning point in the whole saga.

 

He was later (if I remember correctly) revealed to have previously made a fortune from liquidating companies. The newspapers eventually alleged he would personally make £5m from HMRC as a "liquidation payout".

 

For all the blame we can put on others, why on earth did David Murray sell to this man without doing due diligence on him? It seemed as though all Whye had to do was repeat "I'm a huge Rangers fan" and all the questions went away.

Edited March 7, 2018 by DMAA