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“War in mainland Europe”


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15 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

buster nearly managed to get off the fence there.

 

#TheEndIsNigh

Let the 'No Dealers' lead you down a road where it won't be long until they jump off the wagon and leave you to it.

 

#Clusterf**k

 

Edited by buster.
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5 minutes ago, pete said:

That is one company there was a company with 2500 workers. That is also one company. There have been companies also retreated to Frankfurt. Dream on that Brexit will be good for you.

I've always considered myself to be reasonably pragmatic is these things and I tend not to be handcuffed by tribal loyalties. However, the problem I have with your point Pete is that it focusses exclusively on the short term economic issues. There are good reasons why the likes of Panasonic chose to set up in the UK and, while some will have to react to coming changes by moving, other will not. Still others will have cause to move their ops to the UK if future trade agreements indicate advantage in doing so. In the medium to long term, I believe the structural weaknesses in the EU will continue to plague it's economic performance and and the EURO remains unlikely to survive much longer. There may be a period of uncertainty facing the UK but one of the reasons I'm content to see us leave now is I think there is a period of chaos coming to the EU, probably within ten years, and we have this one chance to escape it ... because when it comes it will make Brexit look like a parlour game. It would make an interesting sweepstake to predict how many other members will have left the EU ten years from now.

 

There's a widespread assumption that the EU is a safe haven, a permanent fixture. I don't think that's true. I think it's on very shaky ground indeed.

 

Of course, I could be wrong. But so could you. Not once in this entire affair has anyone shown themselves to have a decent handle on how this will play out. I just feel there is greater safety in having control over your own decisions, for your own benefit, than blowing with a wind from someone else's arse ... and there are a lot of big arses in Brussels. That's a pretty fundamental viewpoint that remains valid for me whatever happens. 

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5 minutes ago, Bill said:

I've always considered myself to be reasonably pragmatic is these things and I tend not to be handcuffed by tribal loyalties. However, the problem I have with your point Pete is that it focusses exclusively on the short term economic issues. There are good reasons why the likes of Panasonic chose to set up in the UK and, while some will have to react to coming changes by moving, other will not. Still others will have cause to move their ops to the UK if future trade agreements indicate advantage in doing so. In the medium to long term, I believe the structural weaknesses in the EU will continue to plague it's economic performance and and the EURO remains unlikely to survive much longer. There may be a period of uncertainty facing the UK but one of the reasons I'm content to see us leave now is I think there is a period of chaos coming to the EU, probably within ten years, and we have this one chance to escape it ... because when it comes it will make Brexit look like a parlour game. It would make an interesting sweepstake to predict how many other members will have left the EU ten years from now.

 

There's a widespread assumption that the EU is a safe haven, a permanent fixture. I don't think that's true. I think it's on very shaky ground indeed.

 

Of course, I could be wrong. But so could you. Not once in this entire affair has anyone shown themselves to have a decent handle on how this will play out. I just feel there is greater safety in having control over your own decisions, for your own benefit, than blowing with a wind from someone else's arse ... and there are a lot of big arses in Brussels. That's a pretty fundamental viewpoint that remains valid for me whatever happens. 

I tend to think it is easier to lose something as it is to gain it and once you have lost it you don't get it back in general. You are going on the assumption that the EU does not realise it is a damaged package. They are already discussing measures to make improvements. Brexit was a wake-up call for them so I also doubt you will see the same EU for other reasons. I don't see the main players changing much and if we lose lands as Poland and Greece then thank god. Greece costs us a fortune and our motorway is filled with bloody Polish lorries that take about 3 kilometres to overtake. I would hate to think we will go back to having queues at all the borders. I hope I am still living in 10 years to see I was wrong.?

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The idea that there neglected, unaccountable career shouters in Brussels are about to wake up to reality is going some way beyond optimistism. Fantasy perhaps?

 

It’s like this Pete. I had one vote, I voted to leave. I was clear why I made that choice, no wool was pulled over my eyes and nothing no has happened since to change my opinion. More people voted with me than against me. Those who didn’t vote have no say in the matter.

 

The narrative is now entirely dictated by those who voted to remain. All discussion is about the risk for the U.K. of leaving. No one on the remain side is talking about the consequences of remaining - apparently consequences only apply if we leave, which of course is nonsense. 

 

For years I’ve watched Brussels draw more and more powers to itself and say less and less about its intentions. I’ve seen no progression towards accountability and no sign of a credible fiscal or economic plan for the EU. The portents for the EU are not good and I think the EU ten years from now will be a very different animal. Rather than a risk of leaving I’m concerned about the risk of remaining. But we all had the same vote and unless we really do want to be part of EU political culture I suggest we honour the little democracy we have left.

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1 hour ago, Bill said:

The idea that there neglected, unaccountable career shouters in Brussels are about to wake up to reality is going some way beyond optimistism. Fantasy perhaps?

 

It’s like this Pete. I had one vote, I voted to leave. I was clear why I made that choice, no wool was pulled over my eyes and nothing no has happened since to change my opinion. More people voted with me than against me. Those who didn’t vote have no say in the matter.

 

The narrative is now entirely dictated by those who voted to remain. All discussion is about the risk for the U.K. of leaving. No one on the remain side is talking about the consequences of remaining - apparently consequences only apply if we leave, which of course is nonsense. 

 

For years I’ve watched Brussels draw more and more powers to itself and say less and less about its intentions. I’ve seen no progression towards accountability and no sign of a credible fiscal or economic plan for the EU. The portents for the EU are not good and I think the EU ten years from now will be a very different animal. Rather than a risk of leaving I’m concerned about the risk of remaining. But we all had the same vote and unless we really do want to be part of EU political culture I suggest we honour the little democracy we have left.

I am afraid the tail did shake the dog in this instance as many were lied too and many thought voting was a waste of time as the Yes vote would win easily. It will not effect me personally other than I will be wanting a duel passport. (No doubt the Yes people had their little lies as well) 

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23 minutes ago, pete said:

.......  and many thought voting was a waste of time as the Yes vote would win easily.

Devil take them, then.

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2 hours ago, pete said:

I am afraid the tail did shake the dog in this instance as many were lied too and many thought voting was a waste of time as the Yes vote would win easily. It will not effect me personally other than I will be wanting a duel passport. (No doubt the Yes people had their little lies as well) 

It’s more of the remainder narrative. No one lied more or told more ridiculous lies than the remainers before the referendum. From WW3 to starving in the streets. It was cringeworthy to the extent it backfired on them.

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