rbr 1,247 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 She's been home 4 years mate . 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill 13,692 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 6 hours ago, ranger_syntax said: How many?! Over what period of time? Where did this number come from? More than 15,000 Scots miss out on university place as SNP government 'cap' criticised https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/01/15000-scots-miss-university-place-snp-government-cap-criticised/ I don't think this says how many "straight A" students missed out but it does provide some total numbers of students who missed out last year. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,195 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 4 hours ago, rbr said: She's been home 4 years mate . That’s ridiculous then !! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewarty 1,871 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 19 hours ago, rbr said: It was part of the SNP budgetary briefing when they announced their plans for next year , plans which still haven't passed the Scottish Parliament Ah okay. I think its actually 41% of the Scottish Government budget, but when you factor in all government expenditure its a somewhere around 16-21% depending on what cut of the data you look at. Cheers! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbr 1,247 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 12 hours ago, Bill said: More than 15,000 Scots miss out on university place as SNP government 'cap' criticised https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/01/15000-scots-miss-university-place-snp-government-cap-criticised/ I don't think this says how many "straight A" students missed out but it does provide some total numbers of students who missed out last year. Cheers for that , I knew there was a 5 in there somewhere lol ,I think the straight A part was from a radio discussion on the topic . 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill 13,692 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Just now, rbr said: Cheers for that , I knew there was a 5 in there somewhere lol ,I think the straight A part was from a radio discussion on the topic . Whatever the exact number, the conclusion is the same ... it's a disgrace that a Scottish government should legislate to deprive Scottish people of a Scottish education because it prefers to subsidise the education of foreign students. A disgrace but in no way surprising. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo79 13,355 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Give them a break, Bill. They have court cases to pay for. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post forlanssister 3,048 Posted January 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 24, 2019 21 hours ago, BEARGER said: Jamie McIvor BBC Education Correspondent 3rd Dec 2018 When a candidate with excellent exam results fails to get the place at university they had hoped for, the sense of disappointment - even grievance or anger - can be real. Newspapers have revealed correspondence to the government from parents who were angry their youngsters did not get in to the university of their choice. So why might an impressive candidate with straight As fail to get a place? The answers are complicated. But, first of all, universities believe what they regard as a simple urban myth needs debunked.No Scottish student is ever denied a university place simply in order to give a place to a fee-paying student from overseas. It may sometimes feel like that to a disappointed applicant and their parents but universities and admissions officers are adamant this simply does not happen." Free tuition But these experiences highlight the downsides to two important Scottish government policies - free tuition and trying to make it easier for people from disadvantaged areas to get in. These policies enjoy broad support within academia in Scotland but, as with any such scheme, there are pros and cons. Undergraduate students at Scottish universities can be divided into three categories: ■ Scots and citizens of EU countries outside the United Kingdom. They are entitled to free places paid for by the Scottish Funding Council. The overwhelming majority of these places go to Scots but under EU law these places also have to be available to applicants from other EU countries ■ Students from England, Wales and Northern Ireland who are charged tuition fees of about £9,000 a year ■ Students from outside the UK and Europe who are charged uncapped tuition fees The number of "free" places is decided by the Scottish government on an annual basis. The overall number of university places available to Scots is around a record high. These places cannot be given to people from the rest of the UK or overseas. If a place cannot be filled by a Scot or EU citizen, it goes unfilled. The 'price' of free tuition However, some will ask why universities are turning down Scots applicants when they have room to allow people from overseas in. They might wonder why universities cannot offer "spare" places to Scots. This highlights the "price" of free tuition. Free tuition means a cap has to be placed on the number of free places - albeit one which is set at a relatively high level. Without some sort of cap, the policy would simply be unaffordable. However, universities can decide for themselves just how many fee-paying students from other parts of the UK and countries outside Europe to take in. The uncapped fees paid by students from outside Europe are an important source of income to universities but these students do not keep Scots out. There is an argument to be made - albeit one which few in Scottish education would advance - that tuition fees would solve this problem. If Scottish universities charged tuition fees, the cap on the number of places would end. However, the Scottish government and many within universities see free tuition as a right and a point of principle. What are the other reasons? So what other reasons might explain why some young people with excellent grades have been turned down? The Scottish government's efforts to help more people from disadvantaged areas get to university may also be a factor. By 2030, a fifth of all students at all Scottish universities will need to come from the most disadvantaged areas. Universities have to meet interim targets along the way. This has prompted universities to pay less attention to exam results in isolation when they decide whether to offer a candidate a place. They have been moving towards a system of so-called "contextualised admissions". This means they now pay more attention to a candidate's experience, potential or personal qualities. One argument in favour of this is that candidates from disadvantaged areas may find the top grades virtually impossible to achieve - while some young people from more advantaged backgrounds may benefit from parental help and additional private tuition. Inevitably, this will lead to examples where an applicant with, say, 5 A Grades fails to get a place while someone with "poorer" exam results gets in. Universities have argued that unless the total number of places available to Scots rises, meeting increasingly-demanding widening access targets could simply make it even more competitive for all others to get in. In the longer term - depending on whatever long-term arrangements are reached between Britain and the EU - some would say all the free places paid for by the Scottish Funding Council should go to Scots while students from EU countries could be charged fees. This could ease the pressure without adding to costs. Is there a way to ensure all deserving Scots get in? ■ Free tuition A point of principle for many but in practice it involves a cap on student numbers otherwise the cost would spiral out of control. However giving the "free" places currently given to EU students to Scots could make it easier to widen access without making it harder for others to get in. ■ Tuition fees If Scottish students were charged fees, there would be no cap on the number of Scottish students. It could also end the situation where some places are only open to students from other parts of the UK. But few within academia would support this option and most believe the pros of free tuition outweigh the cons. ■ Half way house? Nobody in the mainstream of Scottish politics currently publicly advocates any of the following ideas but they might be considered as part of a policy debate. One theoretical option might be to re-introduce tuition fees but devise a system which meant some students - say those from SIMD20 areas or whose family incomes fell below a certain level - had their fees paid for them. Another theoretical option could be to allow students who missed out on a free place to get a place which might otherwise go to a UK student by paying tuition fees. The problem is that it could be bureaucratic and lead to a situation where some students were seen as having "bought" their place rather than achieved it on merit. Missing out on uni - or just the course? The last question is whether some Scots with excellent exam results are really being denied a place at university rather than simply losing out on a place on their course of choice. This depends on which courses the young person has actually applied for. Some may only have sought places on prestigious courses where getting a place is highly competitive. Some careers advisers would recommend that they should also apply for places on courses which are likely to be "easier" to get into as an insurance policy. This might, for instance, mean applying for a place at one of the former polytechnics which became a university in the 1990s. And finally, getting turned down for a place this year should not be the end of a young person's dreams. If they apply again next year - possibly with some more qualifications from school or college, or perhaps with some new experience to highlight - they may be successful. Although the number of young people at university is around a record high, a university place is still not someone's right or entitlement. The question is over the means by which places are allocated. No method is perfect and, of course, what may seem to be "wrong" or "unfair" decisions may sometimes be taken, especially if there is a degree of subjectivity assessing individual candidates. Exam results in isolation did provide a certain objectivity - but the argument is they also placed some courses beyond the reach of able youngsters who did not go to certain schools or benefit from additional help and support. Quote Nicola Sturgeon and her deputy John Swinney have been sent dozens of letters on the “national shame” of talented youngsters being denied a Scottish higher education in favour of English and foreign candidates. A senior teacher told Ms Sturgeon that her son, who scored five As in his Highers, had “his dream shattered” when he was rejected by St Andrews, which is restricted to how many Scots it can accept onto its courses. “Much of the reason for his rejection is a direct consequence of your funding system and cap which is making it harder and harder for Scots to achieve a place at a Scottish university,” the parent told Ms Sturgeon. “We personally know of two young people in that position with five As and it’s heart-breaking. What message are we giving these students?” The mum said the Scottish cap – as well as diversity targets – means the selection process is “disadvantaging high-achieving, middle class Scots”. Her son is attending university in England and warning of a brain drain she added: “Many of them will not return and take their talents and skills elsewhere.” The Scottish Government’s free tuition policy includes a quota on the number of domestic students universities here can accept. There is no limit on how many students they can take from fee-paying countries, including England and non-EU countries. University chiefs privately admit they want more Scots on their roll but say “our hands are completely tied”. A parent of a teenager wanting to study medicine at universities including St Andrews and Dundee believe her rejections are because of the cap. She says her daughter will not apply for medicine again despite dedicating her school career to the cause. “In a country crying out for doctors, this seems such a wasted opportunity for everyone,” the parent said. Universities Scotland said they understand the frustration but added institutions “can only recruit to fill the places available”. The SNP administration, which pays for undergraduate degrees for Scots and EU-domiciled students, imposes the cap to keep control of costs. Former First Minister Alex Salmond locked his successor into the policy when he unveiled a stone inscribed with the promise: “Rocks will melt with the sun before I allow tuition fees to be imposed on Scottish students.” A Scottish Government spokesman said that under the free tuition policy a record number of Scots, including those from deprived areas, have won a place at university. “Our commitment to free tuition means that, unlike elsewhere in the UK, Scottish students studying in Scotland do not incur additional debt of up to £27,000 and average student loan debt is the lowest in the UK,” the spokesman added. “We’re investing a record amount in student support which has meant thousands more qualifying for a bursary or increased funding.” St Andrews University has said: “Restricted numbers have always been a consequence of the current Scottish system, but we are committed to work with the Scottish Government on a shared objective of ensuring that as many bright young Scots as possible are able to benefit from a university education". Perhaps with the SNP currently attempting to erase Alex Salmond from their history they'll abandon the disastrous policy of discriminating against Scottish students on the basis of a f*&king soundbite. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooponthewing 1,139 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 On 23/01/2019 at 16:26, rbr said: The reason there are so many Chinese / Indian student doctors is that they pay full university fees , under the SNP over 5000 Scottish straight A students have been denied a place for this very reason , shocking ,plus when they say we rely on Europeans , this is another reason , there are enough Scottish kids desperate to be Doctorsbut are denied under this government . Bang on the money rbr! £1850 for a Scottish student per year from the government, or £10k per year for an overseas student. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuGers 477 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 It really is impossible for anyone to try and argue that Scottish students aren’t being discriminated against. fact - there is a cap on the number of Scottish students that can be accepted due to government policy. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.