The Spring & Summer 2019 Transfer Rumours Thread

[Rousseau 9,309]

19 minutes ago, DMAA said:

Let's not get carried away. The season has barely started, traditionally we would still be in pre-season right now. I know this is an opinion you've held for a long time but I think his strong performances will return when the league season starts. A reminder of the final assists standings from last season...

 

Assists
Tav - 20
Candeias - 10
Arfield - 7
Jack - 6
Kent - 6

 

And 17 goals. 

[DMAA 3,603]

9 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

And 17 goals. 

I think it was 5 non-penalties, which is itself impressive. Only 1 goal less than Candeias and Kent. Speaking of which, Ojo is already a third of the way to matching Candeias and Kent's totals from last season  I think I'm going to like this guy

Edited July 26, 2019 by DMAA

[Gazza_8 233]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

In the long history of our club there might have been some players who couldn’t be replaced but James Tavernier certainly isn’t one of them. As far as I’ve seen, no one at all has brought out knives for Tav but it’s indisputable that he’s prone to losing form and to making costly defensive errors. He has been vital for the team but the team is changing and we can no longer afford a fullback whose defensive duties require the constant cover of other positions. What he brings in terms of attacking will now largely be provided by others and it wouldn’t surprise me if that’s been discussed with him already - hence his current apparent loss of confidence. 

We could swap Tav's goals and assists for someone who is more defensive minded but attacking wise is non existent. 

 

His assist record alone is irreplaceable. When was the last time we had a player who had 20 assists, let alone a defender?

[Gaffer 1,665]

1 hour ago, Gazza_8 said:

One bad game and the knives are out for Tav. What he brings to the team can't be replaced. If we do sell him it'll need to be for a ridiculous amount. 

I didn't read Bill's post as 'knives being out' and mine certainly wasn't either.  I also didn't think Tav was bad last night.  I was just pointing out that his attacking flair isn't required as much as before and it seems a waste to have someone central (Jack) and attacking who is sacrificed to cover each time Tav goes forward.  That last part was just a fact.  If Tav limited his forward runs and crosses I'd be much happier, but that's my opinion.  And I think I also said that I'd be happy if Tav stayed for 55.

 

p.s.  If you really want to see an example of Bill's knives, just get him on the topic of politics, but please just not on this thread.  ? 

[DMAA 3,603]

3 hours ago, Gaffer said:

 I was just pointing out that his attacking flair isn't required as much as before and it seems a waste to have someone central (Jack) and attacking who is sacrificed to cover each time Tav goes forward.  That last part was just a fact.  If Tav limited his forward runs and crosses I'd be much happier, but that's my opinion

Last season Tavernier had Candeias in front of him so arguably he shouldn't have been needed as much going forward. The way I see the 4-3-2-1 is that the full backs provide the width and turn into wingers when we are attacking so they can't just stay back. With 5 midfielders playing pretty much central, space is created wide that wasn't there before because with clever triangle passing in the middle you are pulling the full backs inside to cover an Ojo or Arfield and then suddenly you switch it out to Tavernier/Barisic who are in acres of space. Think of Barisic's assist for Jack in Gibralter for example.

Edited July 26, 2019 by DMAA

[Bill 13,717]

1 hour ago, DMAA said:

Let's not get carried away. The season has barely started, traditionally we would still be in pre-season right now. I know this is an opinion you've held for a long time but I think his strong performances will return when the league season starts. A reminder of the final assists standings from last season...

 

Assists
Tav - 20
Candeias - 10
Arfield - 7
Jack - 6
Kent - 6

 

With all due respect (sincerely) that was then and this is now. For all that Tav has been one of our best performers, the team is changing and the demands that have been placed upon him for deliveries into the box are being transferred elsewhere in the team. Even if Tav maintains the same form as last season, his number of assists will inevitably fall, simply as a consequence of the evolution of the team and his role in it. I think it was Gaffer who made this point already. There's no intention on my part to belittle Tav's contribution but I think we need a more natural and consistent defender and if the chance comes I would use it to provide funds for the next steps forward. The best manager know to move on players who the support would keep, precisely because they know the future is always more important than the past. 

[Gaffer 1,665]

1 hour ago, DMAA said:

Last season Tavernier had Candeias in front of him so arguably he shouldn't have been needed as much going forward. The way I see the 4-3-2-1 is that the full backs provide the width and turn into wingers when we are attacking so they can't just stay back. With 5 midfielders playing pretty much central, space is created wide that wasn't there before because with clever triangle passing in the middle you are pulling the full backs inside to cover an Ojo or Arfield and then suddenly you switch it out the Tavernier/Barisic who are in acres of space. Think of Barisic's assist for Jack in Gibralter for example.

I agree with your observations regarding the width, but that width should be provided in addition to the central three midfielders (or at least the two furthest advanced midfielders, which last night were Jack and Aribo), but Tav was constantly sitting so far forward that Jack was sitting in as the right back for at least 20 minutes in that game.  That's surely not right.  Tav needs to be selective in when he goes forward.  His time to move forward is as the right attacking midfielder is receiving the ball, not when McGregor has it.  I really don't want anyone to take this as anti Tavernier because nothing could be further from the way I feel.  I really like the guy but he was ineffective last night and I had hoped this would have been obvious and therefore resulted in him being smarter about when he made forward runs, at least enough to allow Jack to get in the middle of the park and get forward.  Jack was eliminated from the midfield because Tav sat forward.  That's surely not being disputed, or is it?  This then caused us to be weaker in the middle of the park, reducing how effective our central attack was, and allowing them more space to break.

[ian1964 10,377]

 

[Rousseau 9,309]

1 hour ago, Gaffer said:

I agree with your observations regarding the width, but that width should be provided in addition to the central three midfielders (or at least the two furthest advanced midfielders, which last night were Jack and Aribo), but Tav was constantly sitting so far forward that Jack was sitting in as the right back for at least 20 minutes in that game.  That's surely not right.  Tav needs to be selective in when he goes forward.  His time to move forward is as the right attacking midfielder is receiving the ball, not when McGregor has it.  I really don't want anyone to take this as anti Tavernier because nothing could be further from the way I feel.  I really like the guy but he was ineffective last night and I had hoped this would have been obvious and therefore resulted in him being smarter about when he made forward runs, at least enough to allow Jack to get in the middle of the park and get forward.  Jack was eliminated from the midfield because Tav sat forward.  That's surely not being disputed, or is it?  This then caused us to be weaker in the middle of the park, reducing how effective our central attack was, and allowing them more space to break.

To build out from the back, that's where Jack should be. IMO.  

 

I thought Tavernier was ineffective in his end-product, but not in his positioning; he was isolated, one-on-one, against that left-back time and time again, which is what we should be doing, IMO.

 

I do agree that Jack can move further forward to aid in the attack and ball-recycling -- that was arguably our biggest success last night, at least in the first half: Aribo, Jack and Davis occupying the half-space to aid control, ball-recovery and keeping the pressure on; while also getting into dangerous areas.  

[DMAA 3,603]

1 hour ago, Gaffer said:

Tav needs to be selective in when he goes forward.  His time to move forward is as the right attacking midfielder is receiving the ball, not when McGregor has it.

I was mainly responding to the suggestion that he won’t be needed as much going forward this season, at least in this formation I think the opposite. 

 

I see what you are saying with this though, I can’t say I paid attention to the shape in this regard but I would agree that the full backs should always return to their positions and come from deep. Much less likely you will be picked up when you do this too. 

 

Also agree with @Rousseau that his end product was the main problem. The formation really seemed to provide him with opportunities to get in great positions but his end product was uncharacteristically poor.