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GERS Denial and the Annual Desperation


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I had to look it up....

 

"In British English, which is also called International English, practise is a verb and practice is a noun. American English tends to avoid practise altogether, using practice as both the noun and verb form."

 

Who'd have guessed?

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1 hour ago, Bill said:

No.  No.... he didn't actually equate "estimates" with "no data" did he ?  That is as far as I have got in that blog and, if that is true, then I need go no further.  If he has seriously suggested that then I doubt even his accounting credentials - it is moonhowling territory.

 

Bearger, IF the above is true then you've not used a particularly credible source as a rebuttal to the GERS numbers.

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1 hour ago, craig said:

I'll try later if I can find the time.  Havent slept well in a while so this may help :roflmao:

I stand corrected - just checked and uk uses "s" rather than "c" for auditing practicing certificates.

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1 hour ago, Bill said:

OK fair enough. It's you that's "using" this guy.

 

But let's stop the daft games. If you were so impressed with Murphy why didn't you tell us about him last week ... or point out his wisdom last month? The truth is you played a part in the orchestrated mass-distribution of something intended to deflect from the catastrophic implications of the GERS figures. Which makes you a propaganda mule.

 

But let me repeat... 

 

What do YOU think of the GERS numbers and if you don't think they represent reality then what does? And if you don't have any original thoughts, perhaps you could set out the SNP's income and spending vision post-independence. If you can't then on what basis are you criticising GERS?

So let me repeat I will give my thoughts on GERS after you give the evidence for your assertion that an Independent Scotland would have less sovereignty in the EU than it has now.

Couple of points just to save you coming back with more deflection, I'm not a SNP member, nor a economist and voted leave therefore no fan of EU.

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11 minutes ago, craig said:

I stand corrected - just checked and uk uses "s" rather than "c" for auditing practicing certificates.

Hedge your bets like accountants normally do. Use old Scots “practicks”.

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1 hour ago, BEARGER said:

So let me repeat I will give my thoughts on GERS after you give the evidence for your assertion that an Independent Scotland would have less sovereignty in the EU than it has now.

Couple of points just to save you coming back with more deflection, I'm not a SNP member, nor a economist and voted leave therefore no fan of EU.

It’s tempting just to treat your practised deflection with the contempt it deserves but that risks being guilty of playing the same game.

 

Your question reflects a corruption of what was debated and is deliberately and obviously constructed to deflect from the real issue discussed. As you know only too well, the point made was that nationalist calls for independence run completely contrary to its stated imperative of joining the EU, with membership of the latter carrying an inevitable loss of sovereignty.

 

It has been clearly established that for Scotland to become a member state of the EU it would first have to leave the UK.

 

[That the United Kingdom’s Parliament is sovereign is perhaps the fundamental principle of British constitutional law. Yet the supremacy of European Union law — meaning that it automatically takes priority over conflicting laws enacted by individual Member States — is a basic principle of the EU’s legal system. These two propositions appear to stand in stark contrast to one another: they seem to imply competing, and ultimately contradictory, claims as to ultimate legal authority, at least in areas to which EU law applies. This, in turn, raises the question whether the UK’s membership of the EU (for as long as that membership persists) means that the sovereignty of Parliament is qualified by EU law.]

 

[One of the twentieth century’s greatest British public lawyers, the late Professor Sir William Wade, contended that the UK’s entry into the EU had triggered a constitutional ‘revolution’, whereby British judges had transferred their allegiance from Parliament to the EU as the ultimate lawmaker for the UK. In fact, Wade went further, arguing that parliamentary sovereignty is not merely suspended for as long as the UK remains a member of the EU, but that parliamentary sovereignty has been extinguished.]

 

The practical upshot is that Parliament remains sovereign only because it has the freedom to remove itself from membership of the EU. As long as the UK remains a member of the EU, parliament has effectively suspended or transferred its sovereignty to the EU.

 

As a member nation of the UK and following the Scotland Act, the Scottish Government is able to exercise sovereignty over devolved affairs only insomuch as it does not contravene EU law. Should the UK exit the EU and reacquire it’s own independent and unencumbered sovereignty, the Scottish government as a devolved part of the UK would retain its current decision making powers, unrestricted by EU law, and would acquire additional powers over some of the affairs that are currently reserved to Westminster. In other words, its independence would increase considerably.

 

Should Scotland leave the UK and then seek membership of the EU, it would immediately revert to subservience to EU law and effectively (though voluntarily) transfer sovereignty to the EU.

 

The nationalist claim of “independence in Europe” is mere dogma and in reality is just wrong. It’s a fiction intended only to impress the ignorant and gullible.

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1 hour ago, BEARGER said:

So let me repeat I will give my thoughts on GERS after you give the evidence for your assertion that an Independent Scotland would have less sovereignty in the EU than it has now.

Couple of points just to save you coming back with more deflection, I'm not a SNP member, nor a economist and voted leave therefore no fan of EU.

But just like to play devils advocate ?

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5 minutes ago, Bill said:

It’s tempting just to treat your practised deflection with the contempt it deserves but that risks being guilty of playing the same game.

 

Your question reflects a corruption of what was debated and is deliberately and obviously constructed to deflect from the real issue discussed. As you know only too well, the point made was that nationalist calls for independence run completely contrary to its stated imperative of joining the EU, with membership of the latter carrying an inevitable loss of sovereignty.

 

It has been clearly established that for Scotland to become a member state of the EU it would first have to leave the UK.

 

[That the United Kingdom’s Parliament is sovereign is perhaps the fundamental principle of British constitutional law. Yet the supremacy of European Union law — meaning that it automatically takes priority over conflicting laws enacted by individual Member States — is a basic principle of the EU’s legal system. These two propositions appear to stand in stark contrast to one another: they seem to imply competing, and ultimately contradictory, claims as to ultimate legal authority, at least in areas to which EU law applies. This, in turn, raises the question whether the UK’s membership of the EU (for as long as that membership persists) means that the sovereignty of Parliament is qualified by EU law.]

 

[One of the twentieth century’s greatest British public lawyers, the late Professor Sir William Wade, contended that the UK’s entry into the EU had triggered a constitutional ‘revolution’, whereby British judges had transferred their allegiance from Parliament to the EU as the ultimate lawmaker for the UK. In fact, Wade went further, arguing that parliamentary sovereignty is not merely suspended for as long as the UK remains a member of the EU, but that parliamentary sovereignty has been extinguished.]

 

The practical upshot is that Parliament remains sovereign only because it has the freedom to remove itself from membership of the EU. As long as the UK remains a member of the EU, parliament has effectively suspended or transferred its sovereignty to the EU.

 

As a member nation of the UK and following the Scotland Act, the Scottish Government is able to exercise sovereignty over devolved affairs only insomuch as it does not contravene EU law. Should the UK exit the EU and reacquire it’s own independent and unencumbered sovereignty, the Scottish government as a devolved part of the UK would retain its current decision making powers, unrestricted by EU law, and would acquire additional powers over some of the affairs that are currently reserved to Westminster. In other words, its independence would increase considerably.

 

Should Scotland leave the UK and then seek membership of the EU, it would immediately revert to subservience to EU law and effectively (though voluntarily) transfer sovereignty to the EU.

 

The nationalist claim of “independence in Europe” is mere dogma and in reality is just wrong. It’s a fiction intended only to impress the ignorant and gullible.

What you actually said.
“The SNP pretence that Scotland could swap one union for another, giving away even more of its sovereignty in the process,  while reasserting any independence is a pure fantasy. Worse, its gross dishonesty.”
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1 minute ago, BEARGER said:
What you actually said.
“The SNP pretence that Scotland could swap one union for another, giving away even more of its sovereignty in the process,  while reasserting any independence is a pure fantasy. Worse, its gross dishonesty.”

I give up. You really are THAT petty. Don't tell me what you think, I don't care. The only thing that matters is that these exchanges have probably tipped a few more people away from the SNP.

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14 minutes ago, Bill said:

I give up. You really are THAT petty. Don't tell me what you think, I don't care. The only thing that matters is that these exchanges have probably tipped a few more people away from the SNP.

Good, feel free not to reply to any of my posts in future. You made a statement that you cannot back up. I will give my views on GERS shortly.

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