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GERS Denial and the Annual Desperation


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13 hours ago, BEARGER said:

GERS is a set of regional accounts for Scotland as part of the UK and not a set of accounts for Scotland as a independent nation. As far as I can see amounts are attributed to Scotland assuming an independent Scotland would spend the same e.g. Trident, Defence, Embassies & consulates, HS2, London Cross Rail, interest on UK debt etc.
The GERS figures show that 8.3% of the UK population are responsible for over 50% of the UK deficit, if that is true it shows you how badly our economy is being damaged by Westminster. Why do the Tories fight so hard to keep us? It cannot be for economic or political reasons, they are doing a disservice to the people of England who would be £12B to the good if we left. They wish to keep us for a reason and it’s not philanthropic. 

 

        

So would an independent Scotland not want to keep the parts of the country that don't contribute positively?

 

An independent Scotland would presumably have to have embassies and consulates so the cost could potentially be more.

 

As for defence, we all know that the SNP would cut back expenditure and take a head in the sand view to global events and just hope that others are there to bail us out, or alternatively not stand up to tyranny as we saw with the SNP's attitude to the German Nationalists during WW2.

 

As for the "things are bad, so lets blame the English/Westminster and take no responsibility ourselves" argument, so that not a bit stale by now?

 

GERS may well be a set of regional accounts for Scotland as part of the UK but it doesn't mean that the accounts of an independent Scotland wouldn't be even worse.

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1 hour ago, BEARGER said:

Are the figures quoted by M. Stewart wrong? 

I don't have a clue but given the amount of crap and lies he normally spouts, surely the default position of any Rangers supporter should be that they are wrong?

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11 minutes ago, Bluedell said:

As for defence, we all know that the SNP would cut back expenditure and take a head in the sand view to global events and just hope that others are there to bail us out, or alternatively not stand up to tyranny as we saw with the SNP's attitude to the German Nationalists during WW2.

Depends which SNP gets in. Angus Robertson was promising a battalion for Afghanistan and another for South Sudan. 26th can tell us the number of troops required to keep two battalions in the field presumably on a six month rotation. I suspect, however, the anti military wing of the Party will be the successful one.

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2 hours ago, compo said:

They might raise tax even more to try and balance the books or bring back prescription charges ..

They’d have to raise an awful lot more than prescription charges. There’s a dark side of me that almost wishes the SNP could get its way - just I could enjoy the howls of outrage from the Nats being confronted with the reality they do readily deny today. 

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A few thoughts on catching up on this thread:

- Richard Murphy... I've read a few things he has done over the years but really have no idea about his background... but the fact that HMRC have it in for him isn't a reason to distrust him necessarily.   Nor is the fact he is prepared to call out vested interests in terms of those avoiding tax, legal or otherwise.  Some of his language and communication style leave a bit to be desired it has to be said, but the main thrust of his criticism of GERS isn't wrong in my view.  The fact he has given evidence to to parliament and to the EU suggests his opinions have some validity, or at least should not be dismissed out of hand.

- GERS... budgets are a numerical way of demonstrating the structure and direction of an organisation.   GERS does this for Scotland based on its current structure.  As many have said already, it doesn't necessarily equate to the political imperatives and the economic reality of an independent nation.  

- SNP - Bill's main thrust of his OP is that a credible alternative to GERS being needed to support any drive for independence is spot on.   Sturgeon's tactics seem to be add odds with the wider Yes movement's desire to push ahead and make a positive case for indyref2.  Unless a credible evidence based vision for the future is produced, which acknowledges risks and uncertainties, indyref2 will have the same outcome regardless of the impact of Brexit

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bluedell said:

So would an independent Scotland not want to keep the parts of the country that don't contribute positively?

Daft thing to say if you’re meaning in an Independent Scotland.

 

An independent Scotland would presumably have to have embassies and consulates so the cost could potentially be more.

Not of the same size and number. Doubt we would have the same number of staff and expenses.

 

As for defence, we all know that the SNP would cut back expenditure and take a head in the sand view to global events and just hope that others are there to bail us out, or alternatively not stand up to tyranny as we saw with the SNP's attitude to the German Nationalists during WW2.

I would assume we would have armed forces similar to other small independent European nations. 

 

As for the "things are bad, so lets blame the English/Westminster and take no responsibility ourselves" argument, so that not a bit stale by now?

All nations should have self determination and go its own way in world.

 

GERS may well be a set of regional accounts for Scotland as part of the UK but it doesn't mean that the accounts of an independent Scotland wouldn't be even worse.

That is correct at least we agree on something. The GERS figures bare virtually no reality to an independent Scotland, things could be better(my view) or could be worse. Just the same as every other nation, it’s up to us to elect our government.

 

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2 hours ago, Bluedell said:

I don't have a clue but given the amount of crap and lies he normally spouts, surely the default position of any Rangers supporter should be that they are wrong?

Totally agree. Any right minded Rangers supporter would take this view. I still can't get my head around that there are some Rangers fans who talk up the SNP on here. 

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