Ongoing issues with UEFA (two sanctions and counting)

[Walterbear 557]

All this ‘they are young lads and we all or most did the same’ is true but these young lads have older lads and grown men with them. Blaming the rest of the stadium, UEFA, FARE, Rangers Board, Oxford English Dictionary is head in sand stuff. 

 

UB can be a force for good and it would make a lot of difference if they just put their hands up and said we won’t do it again and we will self police. If the single largest fan group (at the stadium) said they will self police then many others might (assuming they are not going to get filled in). The UB dont even have to say they were wrong. Sometimes you take one for the team and you move forward. UB could show leadership here. 

 

And if you're out of the conversation Gaspard because of auto correct then you weren’t being serious in the first place. Pity coz you raised some fair points. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Walterbear

[DMAA 3,603]

To be honest I can't bring myself to bother reading the UBs statement never mind respond to it. They had an opportunity and blew it again. The same for most of the "what abouts" like the Green Brigade's use of the word in a banner. @Frankie already posted a quote from UEFA on the Ajax incident which put that issue to bed, it simply doesn't matter if the word is a badge of honour to some Celtic fans. There is really nothing to be said on the whole thing other than cut it out.

[Bill 13,717]

34 minutes ago, DMAA said:

To be honest I can't bring myself to bother reading the UBs statement never mind respond to it. They had an opportunity and blew it again. The same for most of the "what abouts" like the Green Brigade's use of the word in a banner. @Frankie already posted a quote from UEFA on the Ajax incident which put that issue to bed, it simply doesn't matter if the word is a badge of honour to some Celtic fans. There is really nothing to be said on the whole thing other than cut it out.

Only its obvious from what we've seen and read over the last 15 years or so that a fair number are not going to cut it out. Even after the UEFA closure was announced we have plenty of our own supporters focussing only on their perceived injustice vis-a-vis Celtic and ignoring totally their own role in acquiring this punishment.

 

I've been known to drag my own heels over the years but this time change simply has to happen, no matter how many fans have to be sacrificed to achieve it. And losing what is a relatively small number of fans is exactly what it's going to take. Every surveillance effort has to be made to identifying individuals or groups who refuse to conform and, when identified, they must be dealt with as severely as possible.

 

[Thinker 851]

Personally, I don't get involved in any of this kind of stuff, but to summarise the situation:

 

We know that UEFA have been convinced (by FARE or Lawell or whoever) that ****** is a sectarian term and have made its use punishable.

Despite the fact that hun is considered a sectarian term by the police in Northern Ireland, nobody has successfully convinced UEFA to add it to their list.

 

The upshot of this is that the green brigade could hold up a banner that read: "We are the ****** army, and we say kill all huns" and nothing would be done, whereas if the Union Bears held up a banner reading: "We object to being called huns, and we say fuck the ****** army" we'd be penalised for it.
 

As others have said, the chances of UEFA reversing their decision on the word "******" is absolutely zero. There's no point in continuning to test this by singing - it will inevitably result in Rangers being fined and supporters being banned. The only move left for us to make is (imho) to take them down too, by campaigning for parity so that the word "hun" is similarly prohibited. If opposing fans start receiving sanctions for goading us, the basis of the whole "whatabout what they get away with" argument is gone.

 

We need to do this before the SFA bring in their own liability rules that are "in line with UEFA's".

[Bill 13,717]

Maybe one day Rangers fans will create a new set of common identifiers and stop endlessly defending and fretting over a past that has largely disappeared.

[cooponthewing 1,139]

19 hours ago, MacK1950 said:

It was me obviously who posted that as far as I can see that is an add-on which serves no purpose as many of the add-ons do similarly.

I can see no reason for these actions and have no objections to the songs otherwise.

As I see it singing or adding on "God save the Queen" is just another way the UB's show anti catholic behaviour as historically there can be no Catholic ascension to the throne..

Can this section just not sing songs like "Follow Follow/Hello Hello how do you do or even if necessary "The sash my Father wore"".I believe the last mentioned was proven in court to be a "folk song" similar to the Fields of Athenry.

There are no reasons whatsoever to have song decrying the Pope/Vatican etc.

Are you on the whisky MacK??

[917 191]

2 hours ago, Thinker said:

Personally, I don't get involved in any of this kind of stuff, but to summarise the situation:

 

We know that UEFA have been convinced (by FARE or Lawell or whoever) that ****** is a sectarian term and have made its use punishable.

Despite the fact that hun is considered a sectarian term by the police in Northern Ireland, nobody has successfully convinced UEFA to add it to their list.

 

The upshot of this is that the green brigade could hold up a banner that read: "We are the ****** army, and we say kill all huns" and nothing would be done, whereas if the Union Bears held up a banner reading: "We object to being called huns, and we say fuck the ****** army" we'd be penalised for it.
 

As others have said, the chances of UEFA reversing their decision on the word "******" is absolutely zero. There's no point in continuning to test this by singing - it will inevitably result in Rangers being fined and supporters being banned. The only move left for us to make is (imho) to take them down too, by campaigning for parity so that the word "hun" is similarly prohibited. If opposing fans start receiving sanctions for goading us, the basis of the whole "whatabout what they get away with" argument is gone.

 

We need to do this before the SFA bring in their own liability rules that are "in line with UEFA's".

Agree 100%. The reason Hun isn’t classed as racist in law, in my opinion is simply because nobody has ever campaigned for it to be. This term is invariably used to target the Orange Order, or those seen to be associated with the Ulster Scots community, ie. Rangers supporters. The OO are a genuine religious minority, yet it seems to me they are sleepwalking into extinction because they don’t demand to be treated as such. Members seem to still believe they are the majority in Scotland, they aren’t though as most Protestants in Scotland don’t support them these days. Proper 21st century leadership is required, look at how eg the Jewish community respond to those who hate them. Writing to papers, canvassing MPs etc. We could start by complaining to Uefa about FARE chief Piara Power and his apparent anti semitic tweets & tweets condoning anti English chants at Scotland matches. But where is this leadership?

[der Berliner 3,234]

40 minutes ago, 917 said:

Agree 100%. The reason Hun isn’t classed as racist in law, in my opinion is simply because nobody has ever campaigned for it to be. This term is invariably used to target the Orange Order, or those seen to be associated with the Ulster Scots community, ie. Rangers supporters. The OO are a genuine religious minority, yet it seems to me they are sleepwalking into extinction because they don’t demand to be treated as such. Members seem to still believe they are the majority in Scotland, they aren’t though as most Protestants in Scotland don’t support them these days. Proper 21st century leadership is required, look at how eg the Jewish community respond to those who hate them. Writing to papers, canvassing MPs etc. We could start by complaining to Uefa about FARE chief Piara Power and his apparent anti semitic tweets & tweets condoning anti English chants at Scotland matches. But where is this leadership?

You got links?

[Bluedell 5,329]

4 minutes ago, der Berliner said:

You got links?

I pulled Powar up about his stereotyping of Jewish people while at KIO. I think it was in a newsletter email. He denied it of course. I'll have a look tomorrow to see if I can find it. 

[917 191]

4 minutes ago, Bluedell said:

I pulled Powar up about his stereotyping of Jewish people while at KIO. I think it was in a newsletter email. He denied it of course. I'll have a look tomorrow to see if I can find it. 

Also he supported the celtic pro-palestinian display, despite Uefa fining them for it. Some groups, eg the Jewish Chronicle newspaper would describe this sort of demonstration as anti Semitic (though I wouldn’t personally) Also, when Luis Suarez got done for racism thanks to FARE, Liverpool fans went after him & he responded by calling one black Liverpool fan a ‘coconut’ - a racist term itself. This guy should be targetted & his credibility called into question. @piarapowar