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17 hours ago, Bill said:

I just got through reading the Lisbon treaty. OMG!!!!!!

WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY, THE TREATY THAT COMES INTO FORCE 2020, ITS WORSE THAN THE SO CALLED DEAL, IF 99% OF THE BRITISH THINK TERESA MAYS DEAL IS BAD, JUST LOOK AT THE LISBON TREATY. PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW, LEAVERS AND REMAIN
..“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all.
Check it out if you wish ——>> 
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction 
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them? 
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons!
Forget Deals no deals its time for remainers and brexiteers to unite and see whats coming before its to late. This is the whole reason they are dragging brexit out. So we can get to 2020 then we have no choices anynore.

The Irish voted this down as well as the Paris treaty, but on both occasions were asked to vote again after some minor tweaks...that's democracy in the EU,  get EU apparatchiks within each Gov and get the people to vote until they get the right answer. 

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On 13/09/2019 at 09:12, stewarty said:

Whataboutery at its best.  I don't care for Blair but the point is you included in him in your earlier reply so your dismissal is hollow.


I can explain but I can't make you understand if you are ignoring the substance of what has been said.

 

Dismissal is anything but hollow. Politicians lie, get over it. Remainers still hold on to this "they lied to us all" tract, when actually project fear was the biggest lie of all, as none of it has come to pass except the weakening of the £ which has helped exporters. And much of the weakness is due to the 3 wasted years of Remain intransigence in parliament. 

 

I love you're pseudo intellectual put downs as if you are Brexit oracle. I wonder if you know you are doing it? 

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On 13/09/2019 at 19:09, Bill said:

I just got through reading the Lisbon treaty. OMG!!!!!!

WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY, THE TREATY THAT COMES INTO FORCE 2020, ITS WORSE THAN THE SO CALLED DEAL, IF 99% OF THE BRITISH THINK TERESA MAYS DEAL IS BAD, JUST LOOK AT THE LISBON TREATY. PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW, LEAVERS AND REMAIN
..“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all.
Check it out if you wish ——>> 
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction 
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them? 
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons!
Forget Deals no deals its time for remainers and brexiteers to unite and see whats coming before its to late. This is the whole reason they are dragging brexit out. So we can get to 2020 then we have no choices anynore.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, viz.

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwn_LrBRD4ARIsAFEQFKvd6zUm2_oG_wMI_7546kpPJQgd8lKiuxiDRCbUckNOEI8PkEIdUEgaAm3mEALw_wcB

 

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6 hours ago, ChelseaBoy said:

But you specifically called out retail - Can you explain specifically how this pre-Brexit period has damaged retail?  

 

Most economists i have read blame the inherent problems in that market, i.e over supply, poor management, poor strategy and planning, online shopping and business rates. 

 

Now i want a remainers view on how retail has been affected by this pre-Brexit period?

I didn't suggest retail was specifically affected by pre-Brexit, just that our economy has been tanking and that is just one example.

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19 minutes ago, alexscottislegend said:

I didn't suggest retail was specifically affected by pre-Brexit, just that our economy has been tanking and that is just one example.

Well i'm not sure it has actually been tanking as Globally there has been a downturn and many countries within the EU are entering recession. Retail in this country is no more affected than in others as shoppers have access to everything online. I think the UK economy is holding up pretty well when you consider the 3 year Brexit debacle. If May had negotiated a half decent deal and Labour had been prepared to put aside party politics to back it, we would already have been through a trade deal and the economy would be even stronger.

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16 minutes ago, ChelseaBoy said:

Well i'm not sure it has actually been tanking as Globally there has been a downturn and many countries within the EU are entering recession. Retail in this country is no more affected than in others as shoppers have access to everything online. I think the UK economy is holding up pretty well when you consider the 3 year Brexit debacle. If May had negotiated a half decent deal and Labour had been prepared to put aside party politics to back it, we would already have been through a trade deal and the economy would be even stronger.

Correct.

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