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In England they hope to achieve 200,000 vaccinations a day by next week now I read somewhere that in scoscotland over 80s totaled around 230,000yet according to our government it will take to February to vaccinate them why the holdup 

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39 minutes ago, forlanssister said:

It's actually pretty moot really because when you stop treating people for cancer, when you stop diagnosing heart disease, diabetes etc, when you stop sick patients actually physically seeing a doctor and make them go online to tick boxes or get them to phone a helpline to be told "oh it sounds like you have covid-19 take some paracetomol" when they actually have sepsis then as sure as the sun will rise in the east excess deaths will occur.

In that sense, very much so.

 

I meant more an overview of excess death total (Covid and non-Covid)

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58 minutes ago, buster. said:

Most relevant stat IMO is number of excess deaths on top of the average number of deaths over any given period.

I disagree. 

 

The most notable stat from the ONS is the number of deaths that mention Covid in 0-64 year old age group.

 

In the week before Xmas this was 8,377 in England and Wales, so from a population of 58 million. 

 

Unfortunately they do not break down that figure by those that had a severe primary illness before Covid. Given what has been reported before, this number would reduce significantly if they had added this detail.

 

So, from the school age through to all working age, the actual death rate is a tiny fraction of the population and yet we are wrecking the economy, losing 000s of jobs, causing untold disruption to people with other serious illness (the waiting list for hospital procedures is now 300,000 from 1, 665) and still not stopping the most vulnerable from dying. 

 

From day 1 I would say we have not adequately protected the most vulnerable, whether they be at home receiving treatment, hospital or care home and the deaths from these groups are terrible. 

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2 hours ago, compo said:

In England they hope to achieve 200,000 vaccinations a day by next week now I read somewhere that in scoscotland over 80s totaled around 230,000yet according to our government it will take to February to vaccinate them why the holdup 

Nicola Trump doesn't want you to know the answer and sent a clarion call to the cybernazis to pile on to a journalist who dared ask her a very pertinent question.

 

Thread ?

 

 

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4 hours ago, ChelseaBoy said:

I disagree. 

 

The most notable stat from the ONS is the number of deaths that mention Covid in 0-64 year old age group.

 

In the week before Xmas this was 8,377 in England and Wales, so from a population of 58 million. 

 

Unfortunately they do not break down that figure by those that had a severe primary illness before Covid. Given what has been reported before, this number would reduce significantly if they had added this detail.

 

So, from the school age through to all working age, the actual death rate is a tiny fraction of the population and yet we are wrecking the economy, losing 000s of jobs, causing untold disruption to people with other serious illness (the waiting list for hospital procedures is now 300,000 from 1, 665) and still not stopping the most vulnerable from dying. 

 

From day 1 I would say we have not adequately protected the most vulnerable, whether they be at home receiving treatment, hospital or care home and the deaths from these groups are terrible. 

Such an important point. However, despite all the many mistakes I find myself reluctant to join the excessive criticism of a UK govt that was  unprepared and ill-equipped and has probably done a better job than most when faced with a challenge for which there was neither understanding or precedent. 

Edited by Bill
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43 minutes ago, Bill said:

Such an important point. However, despite all the many mistakes I find myself reluctant to join the excessive criticism of a UK govt that was  unprepared and ill-equipped and has probably done a better job than most when faced with a challenge for which there was neither understanding or precedent. 

Agree that this was unprecedented and despite reports in the media i doubt any country has successfully subdued this virus despite what they claim.

 

I just feel that there are other choices that could have been made to avoid these mass lockdowns which have proven only to delay things at best. Looking at the ONS figures its sobering that age groups 75-84 (27,179) and 85+ (34.609) make up the vast majority of deaths, whereas listening to some media reports you would be forgiven for thinking all age groups were equally affected.

 

As the lockdowns are clearly all about the NHS, lets hope that as soon as they say everyone over 75 and all vulnerable people have been vaccinated we can call a halt to the lockdown.

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1 hour ago, ChelseaBoy said:

Agree that this was unprecedented and despite reports in the media i doubt any country has successfully subdued this virus despite what they claim.

 

I just feel that there are other choices that could have been made to avoid these mass lockdowns which have proven only to delay things at best. Looking at the ONS figures its sobering that age groups 75-84 (27,179) and 85+ (34.609) make up the vast majority of deaths, whereas listening to some media reports you would be forgiven for thinking all age groups were equally affected.

 

As the lockdowns are clearly all about the NHS, lets hope that as soon as they say everyone over 75 and all vulnerable people have been vaccinated we can call a halt to the lockdown.

Couldn’t argue with any of that. I just feel it’s important sometimes to make a difference between making mistakes where mistakes are inevitable and ridiculing or condemning as incompetent people attempting to do an impossible job. The one thing I’d like to have seen from the start is a greater willingness tell people just how long and difficult this road was going to be. I think people deal with hardship quite well, it’s disappointment that’s hardest to take. 

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5 hours ago, Bill said:

Couldn’t argue with any of that. I just feel it’s important sometimes to make a difference between making mistakes where mistakes are inevitable and ridiculing or condemning as incompetent people attempting to do an impossible job. The one thing I’d like to have seen from the start is a greater willingness tell people just how long and difficult this road was going to be. I think people deal with hardship quite well, it’s disappointment that’s hardest to take. 

Sturgeon and the Scottish Govt. regularly get a verbal kicking on here for mistakes/incompetence (inevitable or not), or the perception of such.

In social media, the UK Govt. and advisors will come under similar criticism, deserved or not.

On here, it's mostly a one-way bubble of sorts and the reverse target(s) will be true on other sites. 

 

Generally, the lack of solid political leadership and competence levels is a major problem.

The way the media have handled Covid is another area worthy of criticism. 

 

I went down the wrong direction and posted a pic of Laurel and Hardy (Hancock & Johnson) the other day and I think they have given me more than sufficient grounds to be able to comply with the rule of satire that requires a solid argument behind it, that one has license to exaggerate a little.

 

We shouldn't pretend that either administration and individuals involved don't deserve some of the criticism that will come their way. The world isn't perfect and the media at pretty much all levels is very far from it. So the interpretation of (perceived) mistakes will mostly come with a loaded slant when we could do with objectivity.

 

 

As for the long and difficult road, they don't really know how long it is, but have bet the house on a vaccine(s).

 

-----------------------------------

 

 

Jonathon Pie has a go...... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by buster.
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37 minutes ago, forlanssister said:

If only we were still in the EU and left it to them to source, procure and deliver our Covid19 vaccination program ?

 

Brexit eh?

I wonder if they would have let Hungary or Poland off the hook if they went ahead and secured an amount of vaccine outside of the official EU source?

 

No need for answers on a postcard :) 

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