Channel 4 News: Child Abuse Scandal in Scottish Football

[Briton 314]

11 minutes ago, RANGERRAB said:

It’s about whether Celtic covered up criminality & by doing so allowed themselves to win honours they otherwise wouldn’t have achieved.  

That's a yes then.

[Bluedell 5,329]

Another day, another article in the Times:

 

I was abused yards from Celtic Park, claims victim

 

An abuse survivor has claimed that he was molested in premises used by Celtic Boys Club that were yards from Celtic FC’s stadium.

 

Gordon Woods was 13 when Jim Torbett, the founder of Celtic’s feeder club, sexually assaulted him.

 

He alleges that some of the abuse took place in a building used by the boys’ club in the Sixties.

 

Mr Woods, who has waived his right to anonymity, told Channel 4 News: “Immediately outside the main Celtic ground there was a building. It was painted in the same colours as Celtic FC. It was part of Celtic FC’s grounds. That’s where we trained. That’s where some of the abuse took place.”

 

The building has been demolished but photographs and Celtic publications confirm its existence.

 

Torbett was jailed for two years in 1998 and for six years in November 2018 for sexually attacking boys in his care. Celtic FC has expressed sympathy but continues to insist that the boys’ club was a separate organisation with which it had “historic contacts”.

 

Mr Woods, now in his sixties, denied this, saying: “We were very much part of Celtic FC.” He was backed by James Dornan, an SNP MSP whose son was on the books of Celtic FC and its feeder club.

 

Martin Henry, chairman of the Independent Review into Sexual Abuse in Scottish Football, told Channel 4 that there had been an “irrefutable” historical relationship between Celtic FC and the boys’ club, which was later severed.

 

He said that Celtic FC and other clubs had an “inescapable” moral obligation to accept responsibility for the abuse that took place at feeder clubs. Offering compensation was “the right thing to do,” he added.

 

The Scottish Football Association, which commissioned the review, said Mr Henry was speaking in a personal capacity and that it did not endorse his views. The governing body stressed that it was not in the gift of the review to apportion any liability.

 

The review’s interim report, published in 2018, suggested that senior teams could not distance themselves from abuse at feeder clubs. The Times understands that this will be reiterated in the final report, which is expected to be published within weeks.

 

Celtic said: “Celtic FC is appalled by any form of historic abuse and has great sympathy for those who suffered abuse and for their families. The club is very sorry that these events took place.

 

“Although Celtic FC is a separate organisation, we take these [claims] extremely seriously because of the historic contacts between the two organisations.”

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/i-was-abused-yards-from-celtic-park-claims-victim-6k9wkv3xg

[Bluedell 5,329]

I'd prefer if we didn't start shouting about stripping titles. It's not about us. It's about the victims, and getting justice for them.

 

Let's not cause any deflection from that and then allowing people to focus on the validity of any such stripping claims as all it will do it is take people's attention away from the hideous acts, the ongoing cover-up and compensation for the victims and their families.

[RANGERRAB 3,252]

1 hour ago, Bluedell said:

I'd prefer if we didn't start shouting about stripping titles. It's not about us. It's about the victims, and getting justice for them.

 

Let's not cause any deflection from that and then allowing people to focus on the validity of any such stripping claims as all it will do it is take people's attention away from the hideous acts, the ongoing cover-up and compensation for the victims and their families.

Agree with what you’re saying but at some point the SFA will need to become involved in the Celtic BC scandal.By that I mean investigating any sort of cover-up & whether they benefited from it

Edited February 28, 2020 by RANGERRAB

[the gunslinger 3,366]

3 hours ago, Bluedell said:

I'd prefer if we didn't start shouting about stripping titles. It's not about us. It's about the victims, and getting justice for them.

 

Let's not cause any deflection from that and then allowing people to focus on the validity of any such stripping claims as all it will do it is take people's attention away from the hideous acts, the ongoing cover-up and compensation for the victims and their families.

agreed for now but that part must come. But not just for celtc for any club who covered it up and gained a sporting advantage. 

 

we have had testimony hibs covered this up to stay competitive in youth recruitment. We have seen testimony Stein siad the club name had to be kept clean. 

 

we may have to lose trophies and certainly should if there was a cover up. 

 

But that can and should wait till the victims get justice. 

 

 

 

[Doc 280]

3 hours ago, Bluedell said:

I'd prefer if we didn't start shouting about stripping titles. It's not about us. It's about the victims, and getting justice for them.

 

Let's not cause any deflection from that and then allowing people to focus on the validity of any such stripping claims as all it will do it is take people's attention away from the hideous acts, the ongoing cover-up and compensation for the victims and their families.

Could not agree more. This is about the victims and getting them justice after all the years of pain. Those who covered this up and let the perpetrators keep abusing boys for decades behind a wall of silence need to be held to account. 

[Bill 13,717]

4 hours ago, Bluedell said:

I'd prefer if we didn't start shouting about stripping titles. It's not about us. It's about the victims, and getting justice for them.

 

Let's not cause any deflection from that and then allowing people to focus on the validity of any such stripping claims as all it will do it is take people's attention away from the hideous acts, the ongoing cover-up and compensation for the victims and their families.

All very laudable and correct but after all these years of denying there even had been any abuse, when they absolutely knew it had taken place and actively covered it up, and with a great deal more still to come to light, I think any pressure that can be brought to bear on that awful club, from whatever angle, is good pressure.

 

It's in Celtic's DNA to keep on denying the truth, perpetuating the myth that they're a thoroughly moral and successful organisation, without a blemish on their character. It is incumbent on everyone who knows that to be deeply dishonest to attack that lie from any and every angle. There's no room for virtue signalling about the proper approach where Celtic is concerned. 

Edited February 28, 2020 by Bill

[Bluedell 5,329]

44 minutes ago, Bill said:

All very laudable and correct but after all these years of denying there even had been any abuse, when they absolutely knew it had taken place and actively covered it up, and with a great deal more still to come to light, I think any pressure that can be brought to bear on that awful club, from whatever angle, is good pressure.

 

It's in Celtic's DNA to keep on denying the truth, perpetuating the myth that they're a thoroughly moral and successful organisation, without a blemish on their character. It is incumbent on everyone who knows that to be deeply dishonest to attack that lie from any and every angle. There's no room for virtue signalling about the proper approach where Celtic is concerned. 

I believe that bringing up talk of titles will take some of the pressure off them as it allows them to argue in other areas, such as sporting advantage, rather than concentrate on the abuse itself.

[Bill 13,717]

10 minutes ago, Bluedell said:

I believe that bringing up talk of titles will take some of the pressure off them as it allows them to argue in other areas, such as sporting advantage, rather than concentrate on the abuse itself.

Can't we do both? Can't they be attacked for their coverup of child abuse while also being attacked for having accrued unfair sporting and financial advantage. Doesn't it mean they have to try to defend on more than one front? Rather than diluting anything, doesn't it just increase the overall pressure? Personally, I've never mentioned titles but I do see the football side of things as a convenient means of also applying pressure to a complicit SFA. 

[Bluedell 5,329]

30 minutes ago, Bill said:

Can't we do both? 

It allows them to respond on one and not the other. I understand your viewpoint but with a compliant press, the focus on the titles and why it's not correct will be what hogs the headlines.