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Coronavirus and the political situation


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4 hours ago, Gonzo79 said:

So, coop, you're saying the far right may have created this virus, in China, then deliberately exported it to Europe, in order to speed our transition into a cashless society?  

No Gonzo, although it wouldn't be the first time In human history the elite have killed millions to ensure their goals. I think it's interesting that all the unrest in HK, Asia, France, Spain and the recent focusing on Royals and Churches has suddenly disappeared. The social restrictions will be with us for a couple of years imo (it's reviewed every six months, I know) but it's all helpfully removing the limelight for some.


Nothing is ever as it seems and a worldwide global shutdown and distraction suits a number of influential players right now. Maybe it's all coincidence, but either way millions are dying. The other interesting point is the economy, who wins or loses or does everyone lose? Would we have to somehow come to a compromise and economically "reboot"? Social freedom has been revoked and when the headline in the telegraph reads "End of Freedom", you know the gravity of what's happened. 

Edited by cooponthewing
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5 hours ago, alexscottislegend said:

A country of 11 million people being bullied by a neighbour and you call it a threat to world peace. I see no evidence that Castro would ever have nuked the US. They have not a perfect society but there is a basis for a good socialist society if it wasn't for Miami-based wealthy reactionary exiles urging Trump to ramp up sanctions to strangle the socialist revolution. The US has placed strict limits on the capital exiles can send home to their families and discouraging tourism which is one of the main planks of their economy. US should stop being the world's policeman and focus on its own internal problems. 

Re Venezuela - invasion was threatened but Trump knew it wouldn't succeed because, despite their hardship, the people are fully behind the regime (elected again and again with electronic voting not stuffed ballot papers as some ignorant UK politicians claim). The country is no threat to the US so what reason other than spite is there for them to continue sanctions and then hypocritically blaming Maduro for causing hardship.

You haven't read much about Castro, or Kruschev, then.  Kruschev appointed his most trusted general to keep a watchful eye on Castro because he was firmly of the belief that Castro wouldn't think twice about nuking the US.  Indeed, it was his preference, regardless of the stand-off.  Cuba weren't being bullied by the US at the time.  They had already suppressed the US at the Bay of Pigs and, had Castro not so willingly, brazenly jumped into bed with the US there was every chance that sanctions would have been removed under Kennedy - though it was understandable that Castro would look to Russia for support given the US's penchant for trying to overthrow communist regimes - however, it is well known that JFK saw war as a tool of last resort.

 

There is absolutely ZERO doubt that Castro would hve nuked the US.  None, even Kruschev's released documents state as much.  Their "good socialist society" is so good that their supermarket shelves are as bare as the UK's during the current crisis, except in Cuba that is the norm, not the exception.  The US are discouraging tourism - the same US that lifted tourism bans from the US to Cuba under Obama ?  Aye, ok then.

 

How do you know that there were no underhanded tactics in the Venezuelan elections ?  yet again posting as if it is fact.... you simply don't know that.  Haha, the sanctions are spiteful yet the nationalization of oil by Chavez from US companies who had legitimately paid for the reserves with Venezuelan approval, and subsequent threats by Chavez to deny any oil sales to the US.... and you use the US as an example of a spiteful regime.  Lol.  You're comical.

 

However, we are now veering completely off the topic of the thread so best I leave it there.

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5 hours ago, alexscottislegend said:

I'm going to post something positive in this time of uncertainty. One of the most heartwarming things to occur is the springing up everywhere of community self-help groups, in advance of and independent from, government. Ordinary people, at short notice working together to help the elderly and vulnerable. Just imagine what they could achieve if they took over workplaces and services were ran in a democratic way.

 

Things will not be the same again you can be sure. How many times  were we told that the country could not afford to nationalise the railways, could not afford a fully-funded public health service and yet - we find a tory government introducing emergency measures straight out of the Labour manifesto. They have been forced to pay workers' wages, stop evictions and grant mortgage amnesties. So we know that austerity was after all, a political choice and there was a magic money tree.

 

See when we get back to some sort of normality, watch those politicians - Tory AND Labour - queue up to tell us that we need to pay back what we have been lent and how we must tighten our belts.

Wonder what the public reaction will be? Imagine for example, if you are a postman and have just been told that your 95% ballot in favour of industrial action was declared to be illegal and now suddenly you are a key worker delivering blood supplies etc - what will you think if your re-ballot is again ruled illegal?

What many don't realise.... is that this magic money tree comes with consequences, one of which is likely to be the devaluing of the currency.  All that the government are doing is printing money to give to people.  Once things go back to "normal" they won't want that much currency in circulation and how will it be de-circulated ??  That's right, most likely by taxing the shit out of people.

 

Your simplistic socialist view is neither accurate nor is it achievable in anything other than the short term.  I love how you think that simply printing money solves all your idealistic, socialist desires.  It doesn't, not by a long shot.

 

Government are taking the risk, they have no other option, of a massive bailout to prevent a global economic destruction - by doing so the vast majority will have to make sacrifices in the future, by paying more tax.  The only other option would be to let economies fail and, at that point, we would be highly likely to get the looting that Bill spoke about earlier.

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4 hours ago, forlanssister said:

Last week it was because of a Panorama program, this week it's because of pharmacists what's it going to be next week? 9_9

ASIL wouldn't be moving the goalposts.... AGAIN..... would he ?

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4 hours ago, alexscottislegend said:

Your first comment I fear will be the case.

The second makes you sound like a Victorian parent telling me to be seen and not heard.

Not really - he's just pointing out how laughably wrong it is.

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4 hours ago, alexscottislegend said:

I know the government always has a back-up fund for emergencies but where did the 330b come from?

It's called printing money.  Which devalues the value of the currency, which means government will eventually want to remove it from circulation, which probably means more taxes.

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Is there the financial capacity to fund the regeneration and expansion of western manufacturing that's going to be required to replace a shunned China? Trump may be a fool in so many ways but he has a remarkable ability to get the really big picture stuff spot on. Globalism may not be dead exactly but I think version 1.0 is certainly toast.

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6 minutes ago, Bill said:

Is there the financial capacity to fund the regeneration and expansion of western manufacturing that's going to be required to replace a shunned China? Trump may be a fool in so many ways but he has a remarkable ability to get the really big picture stuff spot on. Globalism may not be dead exactly but I think version 1.0 is certainly toast.

I suppose to say it's not a certainty that Trump might not be president come November his leadership in this  crisis has been very poor , watching the mayor of New York today If he was to run come November i think he could be president. 

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