craig 5,195 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, alexscottislegend said: Because there's no reason why what works temporarily cannot work on a permanent basis. The reasons for both are completely different. Unless you are trying to suggest that running the national rail service in a state of emergency is the same as running it in a "normal" situation. It was EASY to run during COVID as almost everything shut down - ask those same people to run it for profit and you could very easily see wildly different results. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,195 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, alexscottislegend said: No. The state involving democratic participation from key workers - hardly the same thing as a faceless state. And I disagree that every economy is planned- the only stable factor is the unpredictability of the market. who ? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChelseaBoy 2,196 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 3 hours ago, alexscottislegend said: Blackmail in other words. It's already 'elsewhere' anyway; it's a globalised world. National governments are increasingly becoming an irrelevance. Really? Tell that to the Chinese, Saudi, Russian or US Govts, where else is a national Govt in thrall to a globalised organisation? Europe I hear you cry, but that project is falling apart. Just wait till the German courts block the release of funds to pay for Southern Europe and the Brexit tab. Greece is facing even more austerity and reaching the point whereby they may as well devalue, fault on debt and return to the Drachma. Italy's mountain of bank debt v GDP would take the entire budget the EU is planning for Covid bailouts to clear it. Madness. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexscottislegend 1,981 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 34 minutes ago, ChelseaBoy said: Really? Tell that to the Chinese, Saudi, Russian or US Govts, where else is a national Govt in thrall to a globalised organisation? Europe I hear you cry, but that project is falling apart. Just wait till the German courts block the release of funds to pay for Southern Europe and the Brexit tab. Greece is facing even more austerity and reaching the point whereby they may as well devalue, fault on debt and return to the Drachma. Italy's mountain of bank debt v GDP would take the entire budget the EU is planning for Covid bailouts to clear it. Madness. The Chinese are trying to get their mitts on Africa, especially where there are key mineral deposits. Even Europe will become squeezed between the US -China trade wars. Greece had its austerity forced on it by a monolith (EU). Madness all right. Might help if we could rebuild some of the manufacturing we have lost. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexscottislegend 1,981 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, craig said: who ? Just one example; the Lucas Aerospace workers in the seventies who proposed restructuring their manufacturing processes to make socially useful things. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexscottislegend 1,981 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, craig said: The reasons for both are completely different. Unless you are trying to suggest that running the national rail service in a state of emergency is the same as running it in a "normal" situation. It was EASY to run during COVID as almost everything shut down - ask those same people to run it for profit and you could very easily see wildly different results. The contradictions of capitalisism; the need to create a surplus which benefits......well, you know. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexscottislegend 1,981 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, craig said: Your nice little pension comes about thanks to those capitalist bastards you can't stand. If you were a true socialist you would demand that you only get the state-funded pension - which is an inconvenient truth to you, the biggest ponzi scheme in the world. I would have starved to death if I had to rely only on my private pensions. How can I be a 'true socialist' in a capitalist sea? Sometimes you misunderstand my anti-capitalism; it's not based on envy, I recognise (as Marx did) that it was an absolutely essential successor to feudalism which brought hitherto unheard of benefits. But that doesn't mean it is a fixed system for all time. I just think that it has waste at its core and puts profits before people. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexscottislegend 1,981 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 2 hours ago, ranger_syntax said: Are you the same person who invoked "non sequitur"? How many people use your username? Ok you've lost me. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChelseaBoy 2,196 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 31 minutes ago, alexscottislegend said: Ok you've lost me. I think Ranger is asking if you are legion, i.e. do you share your user id between many of you so you can spread the joy of socialism to us plebs 24x7 ? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexscottislegend 1,981 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 57 minutes ago, ChelseaBoy said: I think Ranger is asking if you are legion, i.e. do you share your user id between many of you so you can spread the joy of socialism to us plebs 24x7 ? No just me, myself, I. It's not me who has the all-seeing eye!? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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