Diversity and Inclusion Charter

[BB_89 11]

1 hour ago, ChelseaBoy said:

It's not just happening here, it's being debated by all clubs supporters large enough to have a forum. Nobody at any club anywhere has suggested otherwise, just like any other sport. I don't know why some people feel you have to make public shows of identity politics. If people want to come and participate they will, its so lazy to blame all the ills on white protestants or whites in general. Lazy and racist.  

Should've been more clear, I was referring to the fan who brought our club up during his speech at the BLM rally in Glasgow. (Our club being mentioned in more offical capacities regarding these social issues) I am not blaming anyone for anything really - everyone is entitled to their own view. 

 

I just feel BLM movement is so big and vast, it stands for so many things but mainly stands firmly vs racism and thats not a bad message for the club to align itself with. You dont have to agree with everything it stands for either. If people have such an issue with BLM would they be happy with the club doing their own thing with the everyone anyone campaign - focusing even more efforts on it?  

 

Has there been any chat from fans or anyone else at all regarding the toilets? Otherwise why would the cub just out the blue make an announcement on what toilets trans people can use? If people dont want the club to make a public stance with BLM and getting involved with social / political issues then why would we choose to get publicly involved with this?

[Gonzo79 13,548]

4 minutes ago, BB_89 said:

Has there been any chat from fans or anyone else at all regarding the toilets?

The OP states they have raised it with the club.  

 

Some people might not care who uses what toilets.  Some others do care and the OP wants the club to clarify its position on the matter.

 

 

6 minutes ago, BB_89 said:

just feel BLM movement is so big and vast

 

7 minutes ago, BB_89 said:

You dont have to agree with everything it stands for either.

Interesting.

[ChelseaBoy 2,227]

10 minutes ago, BB_89 said:

Should've been more clear, I was referring to the fan who brought our club up during his speech at the BLM rally in Glasgow. (Our club being mentioned in more offical capacities regarding these social issues) I am not blaming anyone for anything really - everyone is entitled to their own view. 

 

I just feel BLM movement is so big and vast, it stands for so many things but mainly stands firmly vs racism and thats not a bad message for the club to align itself with. You dont have to agree with everything it stands for either. If people have such an issue with BLM would they be happy with the club doing their own thing with the everyone anyone campaign - focusing even more efforts on it?  

 

Has there been any chat from fans or anyone else at all regarding the toilets? Otherwise why would the cub just out the blue make an announcement on what toilets trans people can use? If people dont want the club to make a public stance with BLM and getting involved with social / political issues then why would we choose to get publicly involved with this?

That's a given when stated aims are to defund the Police (we have first hand evidence of a lawless society in Seattle) smash Capitalism (so i suppose pensions, savings, housing and entrepreneurship are all fair game) close all prisons (speaks for itself) and for all white people to educate themselves.. whatever that means. So would a club say they are in support of BLM with the following exceptions......? 

[Gonzo79 13,548]

4 minutes ago, ChelseaBoy said:

smash Capitalism

The wages of these footballers will take a fair old hit.  ?

[ChelseaBoy 2,227]

5 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

The wages of these footballers will take a fair old hit.  ?

Minimum wage for all and no Jimmy Hill to save them  

[Bill 13,717]

You really have to laugh at the way "equality" is held up as an immutable truth, as if it held together the fabric of the universe and without it all creation would crumble to dust. It's one of the great dishonesties of our age, that equality is a natural state of the universe, when in actual fact the opposite is the case. Everywhere you look there is inequality. Intellectually and physically, all people are different. All organisations are different, have different strengths and weaknesses, produce greater of lesser success in pursuit of their objectives. Nowhere does "equality" exist in nature, nowhere. If it did there would be no evolution, no progress, no development, no achievement. Only the cold bland soup of the socialist myth. Diversity doesn't need a leg up, it's an inevitable consequence of life. Artificially mixing stable, evolved cultures isn't creating diversity, merely the conflict and instability you see all around you. I could have nothing to do with anything as contrived as equality-worship.

[JohnMc 2,463]

Surely 'equality' is about equal access to opportunity rather than forced distribution of wealth? In a country like the United States there can be little doubt that the colour of your skin has a direct impact on the opportunities you are given. This sits uncomfortably with the 'American Dream' narrative that's so important to many there as well as the belief that 'anyone' can 'make it' and the whole "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses" idea that's so intrinsic in American culture. That's how I've always understood it anyway. 

 

I don't think that idea is as set in the DNA of our culture here though. Class has always been a much bigger barrier in this country and it's fairly colour blind. While plenty of people from modest backgrounds have found success in various fields in the UK the concept is not as important in our culture as in some other countries. 

 

Anyway, back to Rangers. Sport is one of the areas where you will see black people have high profiles and success. In our current culture being good at sport brings not only wealth and profile but also a platform. I think that's why many black sports men and women feel the need to speak about political matters, there is an unseen pressure on them to use their profiles that equivalent white sport's people perhaps don't always feel. As football is the highest profile sport in this country footballers have the biggest platform.

 

The current Rangers team has a far higher percentage of black players in it than the support does. That's not racism, simply that the black population of Scotland is less than 1% and it's smaller again in Northern Ireland, the two main areas we draw our support from. So, in all honesty, 'black issues' aren't high profile among our support or indeed in our country. You could argue the black players at our club and the club as a whole should keep out of these topics, after all what have they got to do with us? But then if these subjects matter to them perhaps we should encourage them to speak about them, to teach us, to help us understand what being a young, black man in 21st century Britain is actually like. I've almost no insight into that.

 

I've a lot of respect for Jermaine Defoe. Not only is he a talented footballer but he's an impressive human being as well. He's a consummate professional who has made sacrifices to ensure he's made the most of his talent. He's also demonstrated empathy and enormous responsibility for others. His friendship with the terminally ill child Bradley Lowrey seemed genuine and heartfelt and his use of his profile to help that boy and raise awareness and money for his condition and others like him was exemplary. So if Jermaine Defoe wants to use his profile this time to raise awareness of racism in society, I'm okay with that. I think that's a good thing. If that involves 'taking a knee' or wearing an armband or some other symbolic gesture that might make someone like me, who has known very few black people and gives the subject little time, pause for thought then I suspect that can only be a good thing. If the club want to support him in this I'm okay with that too, if some, or all, of his teammates want to join in then I'm pretty relaxed with that. It won't change the world, but it might help enlighten some of it. 

 

As for politics and football not mixing I tend to disagree. Football clubs used to be a reflection of the communities they came from, we certainly were. This is hardly new. I read an obituary of Jack Charlton at the weekend and was reminded of the money and time he gave to striking miners during the 80s, Robbie fowler was fined once for wearing a T-shirt in support of striking Liverpool dockers and recently Pep Guardiola was reprimanded for wearing a label badge raising awareness of issues in Catalonia. Most modern football clubs want to keep sponsors and broadcasters on side and so tend to take a very corporate view of 'politics', fearing a backlash or criticism if they make a misstep. Rangers will be no different I suspect. They'll follow the mood and media narrative and take their lead from that. Forgive my cynicism. 

 

As someone who started watching football when many ground's idea of a toilet was a wall with a trough at the bottom and which by half time was ankle deep in urine the idea that we're speaking about toilets for trans people is almost amusing. I suspect the club will wait for the politicians to deal with this and legislate one way or another. As we're responsible for voting for them that feels like a wise move. 

[MacK1950 2,226]

57 minutes ago, JohnMc said:

Most modern football clubs want to keep sponsors and broadcasters on side

 

58 minutes ago, JohnMc said:

As someone who started watching football when many ground's idea of a toilet was a wall with a trough at the bottom and which by half time was ankle deep in urine the idea that we're speaking about toilets for trans people is almost amusing. I suspect the club will wait for the politicians to deal with this and legislate one way or another. As we're responsible for voting for them that feels like a wise move.

Clubs don't have to worry about broadcaster in respect of the current situation as Sky/BT and even Auntie do a more than good job of promoting BLM.

 

Regards toilets I too remember the wall and trough at the back of the Govan terracing as you had to endure the drips from above, as well, from those pissing at the back of the terracing.

[Bluedell 5,329]

11 hours ago, JohnMc said:

I don't think that idea is as set in the DNA of our culture here though. Class has always been a much bigger barrier in this country and it's fairly colour blind.

I've never come across class as being a barrier.

 

11 hours ago, JohnMc said:

So if Jermaine Defoe wants to use his profile this time to raise awareness of racism in society, I'm okay with that. I think that's a good thing. If that involves 'taking a knee' or wearing an armband or some other symbolic gesture that might make someone like me, who has known very few black people and gives the subject little time, pause for thought then I suspect that can only be a good thing. If the club want to support him in this I'm okay with that too,

If Defoe want to do something personally then that's fine. However the club should not be supporting an organisation like BLM UK due to their policy of wanting to defund the police or supporting Palestine.

 

Do you believe that Rangers should be supporting the defunding of police or an anti-Israel/pro-Palestine agenda?

 

11 hours ago, JohnMc said:

As for politics and football not mixing I tend to disagree. Football clubs used to be a reflection of the communities they came from, we certainly were.

Should they be involving themselves in Israeli politics?

 

11 hours ago, JohnMc said:

As someone who started watching football when many ground's idea of a toilet was a wall with a trough at the bottom and which by half time was ankle deep in urine the idea that we're speaking about toilets for trans people is almost amusing.

Spoken as a man. Would you find it amusing if you were a woman and a guy with a dress on was allowed to walk into the same toilets as you?

[JohnMc 2,463]

6 minutes ago, Bluedell said:

I've never come across class as being a barrier.

 

If Defoe want to do something personally then that's fine. However the club should not be supporting an organisation like BLM UK due to their policy of wanting to defund the police or supporting Palestine.

 

Do you believe that Rangers should be supporting the defunding of police or an anti-Israel/pro-Palestine agenda?

 

Should they be involving themselves in Israeli politics?

 

Spoken as a man. Would you find it amusing if you were a woman and a guy with a dress on was allowed to walk into the same toilets as you?

Jeez, BD you're grumpy this morning! 

 

I'm delighted to read that you've never found class a barrier in your life, others will have different experiences. With only one UK Prime Minister this century not attending a private, fee paying school at some point (the only one who didn't was Gordon Brown and he wasn't elected) I'd suggest the class system remains in place. That's not to say social mobility doesn't exist.

 

If you extrapolate Rangers supporting Jermaine Defoe, or any of our players, use of the statement 'Black Lives Matter' as supporting defunding the police or having any interest in Middle Eastern politics I'd say you're mistaken. On some subjects I describe myself as conservative, on others as liberal, this doesn't mean I support either of the parties that carry those words in their name. Likewise I'm entirely comfortable with the phrase Black Lives Matter and the sentiment behind it, without it conferring my support for anything else they might espouse. It's possible to support organisations without agreeing with everything they say or do. 

 

When I lived in Belfast a couple of decades ago now it amused me to see the Israeli flag flown from lamp posts in Loyalist areas of the city. I'm fairly certain it was solely as a response to the Palestinian flag being flown in Republican areas. If one side said 'black' the other side had to say 'white', that's how it was. I've seen the Star Of David flag at the occasional Rangers match too, as I'm sure you have. I suppose if it becomes a big topic here, something the population and the support become involved in it's inevitable the club will become involved on a superficial level at least. But no, it's not something I'm in a hurry for any of us to get involved in.

 

I can only speak as a man. My rather flippant remark was meant to highlight how far football toilets have come in 40 years, not who uses them. In all honesty I struggle with the 'trans debate', it's so niche and irrelevant to my day to day life, I also don't think I'm alone in that. On balance I'm yet to be convinced a biological man should freely use female only facilities, particularly if it makes females uncomfortable. That's my view just now, it might change as I learn more about the subject, or it might not.