gersnet article (image) Away from the numbers

[craig 5,195]

2 hours ago, Bluedell said:

I'm basing it on his performances for our first team.

 

A accusation that's also levelled at Barker.

 

I'm not an expert in Hibs but that seemed more tactical than anything else. 

His performances for us have not been at the required standard.  I’m not saying Barker is a great deal better though as I think neither are good enough for us.  
 

Middleton scares his opposition with his pace but for the most part he’s rendered ineffective because they sit so deep anyway.  He simply doesn’t have the trickery of a Kent to go along with his pace.  And, yes, neither does Barker, which is why neither are good enough.

 

Not so sure about the Hibs situation - did he not fail to get much game time under two different managers ?

[DMAA 3,600]

2 hours ago, Frankie said:

It's like you say, Gerrard wants his forward players to be two-footed and able to interchange right across the final third.  Kent, Barker and Hagi are two footed so the best current options for this.  Jones and Middleton are more traditional wingers so have perhaps struggled more to adapt/impress in training.  Someone like Stewart is another good option but he's quite left-sided and lacks the pace of the other current first choices.

I think this is the main reason he has been frozen out, Gerrard likes a certain type of player to play in his system. It would be easier to understand if he'd been on the fringe but he has been totally frozen out.

 

It feels pointless debating Middleton because it's clear as day he has no future here, but he still gets a bad rap so I've been baited by the speed merchant label so I'm going to defend him one more time. He has shown time and time again he has a lot more than just pace to his game. We only saw glimpses of him in all honestly, but here are some examples.

 

He is a very good crosser, his corners were consistently pinpoint. Do people not realise the technique involved in that? Far more consistent than Tavernier or Kent. His in-game crossing was very good too. One example that people will remember is his 90th minute assist for Morelos to clinch the game at St Johnstone. An excellent cross, and it was something he did often, not a one off. How often have we seen any of our attacking midfielders put a cross like that on Morelos's head in the 6 yard box? I can pretty confidently say almost never, they just don't do it and sometimes you need a conventional, quality cross instead of running into traffic over and over again.

 

He showed at Villareal with a well weighted through ball to Barisic that he has the vision to play a good through ball. That was a "secondary assist" but he got praise for it at the time. 

 

He also consistently showed that he is actually a very good finisher and one of the best at shooting from range that we have. His finish at home against Motherwell was excellent and it was at the end of the box and even on his weak foot. For someone so one footed he has done something I don't think anyone in our current team has done (bar Morelos once at Aberdeen), score from outside the box on his weak foot. Surely most people have seen his rocket against Celtic youths in the final too. I don't think anyone in our current team is capable of scoring from 30-35 yards with that kind of power. He had another excellent finish from the edge of the box in that game too.

 

I am not saying he should be starting, that ship has sailed, but he has been under-utilised and consistently underrated by some of our fans and I think he will go on to have a good career somewhere else.

Edited September 3, 2020 by DMAA

[DMAA 3,600]

Oh and just to annoy a few people, he barely featured at all for Hibs last season and he still managed an assist more than Kent did, in the only 90 minutes he got all season ?

Edited September 3, 2020 by DMAA

[craig 5,195]

4 hours ago, Rousseau said:

I think Barker and Middleton are both speed-merchants. 

 

Barker has more skill about him, though, whereas Middleton is quite one-dimensional in this regard. This means that Barker can play across the front line, whereas Middleton can only really play as a winger, just like Jones - they're not used as much, for this reason; we don't play with proper wingers.  

 

I will admit Middleton always looked like he knew how to get on the end of things, and assist. I do wonder if that's coloured by the the goals he scored, which tended to be late in games, I think? 

 

I don't think Middleton's record is that great: it's coloured a couple of goals, IMO. It is better than Barker's, in terms of end-product, but Middleton played almost three times the number of games.

 

I am surprised that Middleton has not made more appearances. There must be a reason, though. 

 

It must be what they bring to the team in terms of overall play.

 

I've been quite pleased with Barker's contribution over the last 2 games. However, I still fully expect to see him dropped when Aribo returns. 

Middleton's lack of appearances is in your post - he is a winger and we dont play with wingers.  Jones was also told to adapt and be able to play inside more often, or narrower, and he is struggling to adapt his play to suit, hence his lack of gametime. 

 

Us playing with natural wingers is fairly pointless when there is no space to get to the byeline where they are most effective.  The way we are playing just now with fluidity across that front 3 and the fullbacks offering the width is, IMHO, the best way to combat park the bus tactics. 

[Rousseau 9,294]

3 hours ago, DMAA said:

I think this is the main reason he has been frozen out, Gerrard likes a certain type of player to play in his system. It would be easier to understand if he'd been on the fringe but he has been totally frozen out.

 

It feels pointless debating Middleton because it's clear as day he has no future here, but he still gets a bad rap so I've been baited by the speed merchant label so I'm going to defend him one more time. He has shown time and time again he has a lot more than just pace to his game. We only saw glimpses of him in all honestly, but here are some examples.

 

He is a very good crosser, his corners were consistently pinpoint. Do people not realise the technique involved in that? Far more consistent than Tavernier or Kent. His in-game crossing was very good too. One example that people will remember is his 90th minute assist for Morelos to clinch the game at St Johnstone. An excellent cross, and it was something he did often, not a one off. How often have we seen any of our attacking midfielders put a cross like that on Morelos's head in the 6 yard box? I can pretty confidently say almost never, they just don't do it and sometimes you need a conventional, quality cross instead of running into traffic over and over again.

 

He showed at Villareal with a well weighted through ball to Barisic that he has the vision to play a good through ball. That was a "secondary assist" but he got praise for it at the time. 

 

He also consistently showed that he is actually a very good finisher and one of the best at shooting from range that we have. His finish at home against Motherwell was excellent and it was at the end of the box and even on his weak foot. For someone so one footed he has done something I don't think anyone in our current team has done (bar Morelos once at Aberdeen), score from outside the box on his weak foot. Surely most people have seen his rocket against Celtic youths in the final too. I don't think anyone in our current team is capable of scoring from 30-35 yards with that kind of power. He had another excellent finish from the edge of the box in that game too.

 

I am not saying he should be starting, that ship has sailed, but he has been under-utilised and consistently underrated by some of our fans and I think he will go on to have a good career somewhere else.

Nah. Speed-merchant.  

 

I think you're exaggerating his ability, in what were fleeting appearances, but I agree with the general argument. I thought he was a very good prospect, but didn't show it consistently. He's still only 20, so I hope he can improve to force his way into the picture. 

[DMAA 3,600]

13 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

Nah. Speed-merchant.  

 

I think you're exaggerating his ability, in what were fleeting appearances, but I agree with the general argument. I thought he was a very good prospect, but didn't show it consistently. He's still only 20, so I hope he can improve to force his way into the picture. 

Just to be clear, I agree that the sample size is small and that is a caveat on my comments. However, what I was primarily trying to get across is that he showed that he did have the ability to do things other than knocking the ball 10 yards ahead of him and getting round his man. I think of a Gregg Wylde when people say speed merchant and he never showed the ability that Middleton did.  

Edited September 3, 2020 by DMAA

[Fat Eck 102]

On 01/09/2020 at 15:26, Bluedell said:

Did Fat Eck miss Barker jogging rather than sprinting to support Kent's attack around 60 minutes? I don't recall Hagi (or any other Rangers player) actively trying to ensure he's not on the end of a chance.

Sorry, Bluedell - I've been shi**in' oot and letting others defend me on this one rather than back myself like Oor Brandon backs himself to score every time he has sight of goal (aherm).

Aye, what everyone else said, really. I absolutely didn't miss that strange wee u-bend of a run he made, when it seemed easy to make himself a square pass inside for Kent. And, if I had missed it, Andy Walker was there to gleefully point out the possible gutlessness of it all for me.

I also couldn't fail to miss BB, erm, not failing to miss, much earlier in the same half, when in on goal from the inside-left angle. Mind, when he sklaffed it into the side-netting?

(BTW, on TV replays without the crowd noise, is it Barker shouting "C*NT!" you can hear straight after?)

I'm not for one second saying Brandon's proved he's a proper player or that I, like most, don't want him dumped for Aribo as soon as Jo's fit. I just don't think he was alone in missing easy scoring chances on Saturday, or in making bad choices in and around the box when we seemed certain to score. 

I'm not seriously saying anything is decided one way or the other about anyone, really (except Gerrard. He da Man. That's safe). I'm just taking the positives from Saturday, not for the sake of it, but for as objective a look at how we're coming along as I can manage. 

It mostly looked to me like, as others on this thread are saying more concisely than I can manage, Brandon was having to slow his run to stay onside. And I think he could also see Ryan Kent was more interested in shooting than squaring. Furthermore, while BB should have easily been able to get away from it, we can't completely discount Hamilton's attempts at last-ditch marking in this incident.

But I get your drift. I do indeed think there is a chance that, by that point of the game, Brandon Barker didn't want to make himself available for a clear shot on goal. His confidence may have been so low from previous misses in this match - exacerbated by the knowledge he's not changing the minds of the army of Rangers fans who've written him off - that he just chucked it, was hiding, sh*t it, etc.

If he ain't doing the business in some way, he'll be ditched soon enough. I like the argument in this thread about his two-footedness being what Beale, Stevie G & Co want for their anti-wingers system.

But the way our goals came about at New Douglas Park (yeah, take that FOYS - I ain't no sell-out!) - sheer overwhelming pressure creating unbearable confusion for Accies - needed all hands on deck in the first twenty. Barker was part of that. He contributed.

And the fact he kept running, kept trying, is part of the reason Accies only had one period of anything approaching pressure in the entire game. 

It's only Accies away. It was only 2-0. But Brandon did no more or less than anyone else to win those three points or fail to win them more easily. 

I don't think his head-down, shoulders-slumped style helps him win admirers on the few occasions he is doing stuff correctly. And I do think he looks like he's too hard on himself, maybe needs to chill a bit.

But on Saturday he did more right than wrong, didn't do any more wrong than anyone else and, well, if he was hiding he wouldn't have attempted to take that ball past the last Accies man who brought him down for the sending off which, if you can't score a third, is the next best way to seal the game.

Coz, had the Accies captain not fouled him, Brandon would have had the entire Accies half to himself and I know for a fact he would have waltzed it up the pitch, stopped at the 18 yard line to tell the Accies keeper to "come get it", spun round, stood on the ball, and did the old Kancheskis "Where are ye mateys?" to the trailing Accies defence and then megged the keeper wi a back-heel before running round him to stop it on the line then stoop to head it in.

FACT!

[Aye, aye - i know Glen Middleton would have stood on the ball before he spun but I'm noh getting into that again ... no way ... I'm pretending to be man-marked ...]

Edited September 3, 2020 by Fat Eck
Like a Barker run into the box, it needed more full-stops.

[DMAA 3,600]

I forgot to mention that the primary reason for Middleton not succeeding at Hibs was Heckingbottom's sacking. He was signed by Heckingbottom and he was always in the matchday squad and making appearances under Heckingbottom. He didn't make a single matchday squad after Heckingbottom left. Jack Ross froze him out for reasons only he knows. There was every chance he would have come good once he had bedded in and injuries and suspensions gave him a run in the team. Very few young wingers can come in and immediately displace experienced players 6-7 years older than them (he was competing with Kamberi, Newell and Horgan for the left forward spot).

 

I should be his agent.

Edited September 4, 2020 by DMAA

[craig 5,195]

8 hours ago, DMAA said:

I forgot to mention that the primary reason for Middleton not succeeding at Hibs was Heckingbottom's sacking. He was signed by Heckingbottom and he was always in the matchday squad and making appearances under Heckingbottom. He didn't make a single matchday squad after Heckingbottom left. Jack Ross froze him out for reasons only he knows. There was every chance he would have come good once he had bedded in and injuries and suspensions gave him a run in the team. Very few young wingers can come in and immediately displace experienced players 6-7 years older than them (he was competing with Kamberi, Newell and Horgan for the left forward spot).

 

I should be his agent.

With all due respect mate, if Middleton needs injuries and suspensions to break into Hibs team then is he really good enough for games at Rangers ??

[craig 5,195]

8 hours ago, DMAA said:

I forgot to mention that the primary reason for Middleton not succeeding at Hibs was Heckingbottom's sacking. He was signed by Heckingbottom and he was always in the matchday squad and making appearances under Heckingbottom. He didn't make a single matchday squad after Heckingbottom left. Jack Ross froze him out for reasons only he knows. There was every chance he would have come good once he had bedded in and injuries and suspensions gave him a run in the team. Very few young wingers can come in and immediately displace experienced players 6-7 years older than them (he was competing with Kamberi, Newell and Horgan for the left forward spot).

 

I should be his agent.

Newell is pish and Kamberi spent the second half of the season at us.  Horgan has always looked decent, but still not good enough for Rangers - which also means Middleton would struggle.

 

Would I like the lad to come good ?  Absolutely - but for a Gerrard team he is too one-dimensional.