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Dave King to Sell Shares to Club 1872


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10 minutes ago, ranger_syntax said:

Funny you should say that because the exact opposite is obviously true.

The club will run out of money sooner or later if the club gets £13m from the fans?

 

I'm obviously missing the point you're trying to make. Do you mind explaining it?

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49 minutes ago, ranger_syntax said:

Keep shoveling money in for other people to spend?

 

How sustainable is that?

 

41 minutes ago, Bluedell said:

More sustainable than not putting anything in.

 

14 minutes ago, ranger_syntax said:

Funny you should say that because the exact opposite is obviously true.

 

2 minutes ago, Bluedell said:

The club will run out of money sooner or later if the club gets £13m from the fans?

 

I'm obviously missing the point you're trying to make. Do you mind explaining it?

To invest zero is infinitely sustainable. 

 

I don't know how sustainable it is for the Club1872 to invest 13 million for others to spend. I do believe that it is not infinitely sustainable.

 

I think that you assume the club will not balance the books in any other way. Is that fair to say?

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4 minutes ago, ranger_syntax said:

 

 

 

To invest zero is infinitely sustainable. 

 

I don't know how sustainable it is for the Club1872 to invest 13 million for others to spend. I do believe that it is not infinitely sustainable.

 

I think that you assume the club will not balance the books in any other way. Is that fair to say?

So you're sustainability question is looking at it from a C1872 viewpoint? I'm only looking at it from the club's perspective.

 

I believe that if the cash is invested in the club then it will make it easier for the club to continue without running into significant financial difficulties.

 

The cash from the existing shareholders will dry up at some point and players will have to be sold...potentially costing us the league or European progression, which has its own financial implications. Getting an extra £13m will allow us to go that bit longer without taking drastic steps.

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10 minutes ago, Bluedell said:

So you're sustainability question is looking at it from a C1872 viewpoint? I'm only looking at it from the club's perspective.

 

I believe that if the cash is invested in the club then it will make it easier for the club to continue without running into significant financial difficulties.

 

The cash from the existing shareholders will dry up at some point and players will have to be sold...potentially costing us the league or European progression, which has its own financial implications. Getting an extra £13m will allow us to go that bit longer without taking drastic steps.

It's an abstract point that is true for any party.

 

I don't really need to tell you that though as you go on to make my point for me.

 

You can't escape the need to balance the books. No board will ever do that if you promise to bail them out. 

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It is slightly surprising that C1872 haven't attempted to improve their governance and transparency prior to announcing such a scheme.   There is no doubt that this is a massive undertaking, albeit one that on the face of it, I'm willing to support.  This will only work if they get the right support and infrastructure in place, so it seems quite short sighted to not have anticipated these areas would be questioned.

 

More broadly, there are some within our support who don't support C1872 for a variety of reasons, and things like this will only harden their views and make it harder to persuade new members to sign up and hand over their cash.

Edited by stewarty
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I would assume that Club 1872 will indeed ask their supporters how the latter want their fees to be spent, on acquiring King`s shares or on buying new shares -I don`t think they killed off that option, did they? Maybe we give them a little more time to digest what is now in front of them and not whip up something within hours or even days of King`s proposal? After all, there is a 3-year period.

 

The more shares Club 1872 can acquire the better is the chance that a 2012 scenario won`t happen again. Whether these shares are new shares or DK`s is of no consequence here, IMHO.

 

Further share issues might very well "dilute" the % that Club 1872 has acquired, seemingly by the odd %, though people may agree that nothing stops anyone to invest in Club 1872 to solely buy more new shares either, now or in the future. It is a big ask from Club 1872 as well as the individual supporter, of course. Likewise, the more shares Club 1872 has the better, no matter the source?

 

"Better spend 13m to finance the club" ... I actually don`t know how much money is being "pumped" into the club via Club 1872 or the shares, yet, IMHO, the financial  well being is more likely dependent season ticket, merchandise, advertising and similar money, as well as loans et al from those able to invest them straight away. Likewise, as I said before, success on the field is one of the biggest income streams, be it participation / prize money or indeed player sales. But perhaps someone more clued up can shed some light on the finances in this respect.

Edited by der Berliner
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The club has to become self sustainable regardless. Whether that means CL money, Player sales or Cutting our cloth accordingly. Or the more reasonable combination of these. 

 

Is it desirable to have grass roots fans own a sizable percentage of the club. YES

 

Would it be best if that was achieved with investment directly to the club. YES 

 

Is that an option. Doesn't seem so. 

 

Do the club require the funds to remain operational. We are told No. 

 

IS this all typically disappointing........ 

 

 

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Club1872 need to get themselves sorted out, in terms of making clear their short, medium and long-term strategy, their structure and provide more transparency, if they want to encourage more Bears to sign up (I used to be a member but left about 3 years ago).

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37 minutes ago, Yorkie Bear said:

It's amazing that Stevie's innocuous fist post has triggered the responses it has. I have no financial expertise so I respect the contributions of those who have. They make valid points which I am sure Stevie will cover off in his discussions. My initial reaction was in line with Stevie. I thought that a fan group owing a large share holding would be a good thing and I maybe mistakenly believed that this would be a widely held view. If what is being said that the fans owning a sizable share would deter other investors, then maybe a fans holding is not such a great idea after all. 

 

I look forward the Stevie reporting on his discussions. They may not unite all gersnetters but I'm sure I'll be better informed. 

Surely the primary aim of Club1872 shouldn't be to own shares, although that looks increasingly the case, but to assure the long term security of Rangers. It seems many presume these two aspirations to be essential the same thing. To anyone willing to stop and think, that's not necessarily the case. At the moment, as far as I can see, little more than blind acceptance connects one to the other and too many well-meaning fans seem to be fuelled only by faith and hope, while their charity is being hijacked and offered in entirely the wrong direction. 

 

Far from having gone away, I have a growing suspicion that some of our old problems have only been hiding in the shadows and may be about to bite us on the arse yet again. The smell of self-interest once again hangs in the air.

 

Gaining control should never have been the priority for Club1872. It should always have been about assuring the best interests of Rangers. It's easy to appear benign and competent when you have people like Whyte, Green, etc running the club but where's the evidence Club1872 offers anything we need today. Where is there the slightest sign that Club1872 possesses any of the qualities or resources needed to play such an important role in the future of the club? I can however see lot's of reasons why Club1872 should never be in a position to obstruct good governance, which is where it will be if this nonsense comes to pass.

 

 

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