match thread (image) [FT] Dundee Utd 1 - 2 Rangers (Tavernier 26; Goldson 44)

[Gonzo79 13,514]

3 minutes ago, DMAA said:

him?The oft-repeated line about dragging players out of position and making space for others has been exaggerated beyond belief,

I disagree.

 

3 minutes ago, DMAA said:

We’ve been just as good if not better without him though

What games did we perform better in where Morelos wasn't playing (Poznan away is the only one that immediately springs to mind)?

[buster. 4,808]

5 minutes ago, DMAA said:

We’ve been just as good if not better without him though, he hasn’t been a key player in our good form. I’d argue he’s been the least important player in the 11 to our form, who would people drop before him?The oft-repeated line about dragging players out of position and making space for others has been exaggerated beyond belief 
 

It's become an undisputed fact that shouldn't be accompanied by any connected negatives that undermine the simplistic argument being put forward.

Egil Ostanstad could probably drag defenders out of position and we got accustomed to him not scoring goals ?

 

The issue I have is connected to the risks his temperament undoubtedly brings to our title efforts. 

A year ago, it was a risk that we had little choice other than to take it. Now, the new methods are working and I think we can not only lessen such a risk significantly but also replace Morelos with an upgrade in terms of the current centre forward role. 

[DMAA 3,592]

13 minutes ago, buster. said:

It's become an undisputed fact that shouldn't be accompanied by any connected negatives that undermine the simplistic argument being put forward.

It’s echo chamber stuff for me.

[JohnMc 2,451]

I thought Roofe, Kent and Morelos were all below par yesterday. Kent flattered to deceive but worked hard,  Morelos worked hard and got into some good positions but his finishing was very poor and Roofe was as quiet as I remember him in a game. Dundee Utd deserve some credit for stopping us playing at our most fluent but we controlled most of the match and should have won by a more comfortable margin than we did. 

 

For me Morelos was never as good as some thought he was this time last season and he's not as bad as some think he is this season. All strikers go through spells where it's not happening and he seems to be having one just now. He's still our 3rd highest goal scorer for the season though and we're not even half way through. Itten is now putting pressure on Roofe and Morelos for a starting spot, his performance at Poznan and his wee run yesterday gave us a glimpse of the player he is. I've not been very impressed with him until very recently and certainly didn't think he deserved a starting spot ahead of Kent, Roofe or Morelos. But, no one would be very surprised if he starts our next match, he's made the most of the chances he's had. 

 

When you analyse our side you can see that Gerrard doesn't like changing the defence much, Balogun and Helander swap in and out but the rest rarely do. Our midfield tends to alternate much more but our forward line, when everyone is fit, tends to be Kent, Roofe and Morelos. As the side is winning and playing well it's difficult to criticise this. Itten will get a chance again soon and if he plays well and scores then I think he'll keep his spot. Of course injuries and suspensions will come into it soon too. Morelos will get goals again, I've no doubt about that, even off form a bit he's still a handful to defend against. 

[DMAA 3,592]

2 hours ago, JohnMc said:

and Roofe was as quiet as I remember him in a game

I think he was better than some have made out. He was denied a truly outstanding assist by Morelos. It was a sublime pass that set up as good a chance as a striker could ask for. His link up play is underrated too, he was involved in some good one-touch passing moves.

 

2 hours ago, JohnMc said:

He's still our 3rd highest goal scorer for the season though

2 of those goals were against part timers in Gibraltar though. Still goals, sure, but I think those goals make his numbers look better than they are. He's scored 3 of our 47 league goals, and 2 of those were at home to St Mirren (again, still goals yes, but in an easy game against a side 2 points off bottom).

 

2 hours ago, JohnMc said:

When you analyse our side you can see that Gerrard doesn't like changing the defence much

Up until this season he was reluctant to change the team at all, this season he has been much better but I have still been frustrated by his reluctance to rotate the forwards. Itten, Hagi and Defoe have deserved more opportunities because Kent and Morelos haven't been good enough not to be rotated. Doesn't matter to me if we are winning games, individual performances matter.

Edited December 14, 2020 by DMAA

[Rousseau 9,271]

3 hours ago, DMAA said:

We’ve been just as good if not better without him though, he hasn’t been a key player in our good form. I’d argue he’s been the least important player in the 11 to our form, who would people drop before him?The oft-repeated line about dragging players out of position and making space for others has been exaggerated beyond belief, and it completely misses the fact that it has been a tactical tweak in the team’s system and isn’t specific to Morelos at all. Roofe, Defoe and Itten have all done the same thing well too, and Roofe in particular did it much better than Morelos. 
 

I don't think we are missing the fact that it's a tactical tweak. Morelos' game has shifted to accommodate that new role. He's working hard, he's contributing to the team performance, and he's getting chances. Clearly the manager sees that. 

 

The only thing that is disappointing is his goal-scoring: his confidence is shot in that regard. 

 

Your argument that others can do Morelos' role just as well is a fair enough opinion, but you seem to think we have 4 options for that one spot. We don't.

 

Roofe plays in the wider (?) position, Kent on the other side. They play anyway. 

 

So, for Morelos' position, we have Defoe or Itten to come in.

 

Defoe cannot play every game; he plays the odd game, and towards the end of games, and that's it. Itten can come in, but actually, he's not shown enough to warrant that spot -- until recently; He played well against Poznan and did well when he came on against Dundee Utd for the final few minutes.

 

Your criticism is overblown. 

[Gonzo79 13,514]

2 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

Your criticism is overblown. 

His criticism is overblown.

 

#EchoChamberLoyal

[buster. 4,808]

1 minute ago, Gonzo79 said:

His criticism is overblown.

 

#EchoChamberLoyal

Agree or not, DMAA always puts forward a reasoned argument.

 

Some others just snipe.

[Gonzo79 13,514]

2 hours ago, Gonzo79 said:

What games did we perform better in where Morelos wasn't playing (Poznan away is the only one that immediately springs to mind)?

Any answer to this (it's a genuine question)?

[DMAA 3,592]

47 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

I don't think we are missing the fact that it's a tactical tweak. Morelos' game has shifted to accommodate that new role. He's working hard, he's contributing to the team performance, and he's getting chances. Clearly the manager sees that. 

Of course plenty see that it's not specific to Morelos, you are obviously as tactically aware as any, but plenty haven't spotted it. I think he always works hard, many people have criticised his attitude and I haven't. 

 

47 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

The only thing that is disappointing is his goal-scoring: his confidence is shot in that regard. 

It's not the only disappointing thing though is it. Every game he has at least a few wayward passes and poor touches and they often result in dangerous counter attacks. In some games it seems the only chances the opposition have come from Morelos' mistakes (Aberdeen comes to mind).

 

47 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

You seem to think we have 4 options for that one spot. We don't.

 

Roofe plays in the wider (?) position, Kent on the other side. 

Roofe played 3 games in a row at CF earlier in the season, starting ahead of Morelos. He was excellent there. The decision has been made to bring Morelos back in and for Roofe to replace Hagi behind him. I like Roofe in this role too. The way I see it, reverting to Roofe, Kent, Hagi is an option, as is something like Itten/Defoe, Kent, Roofe.

 

47 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

Defoe cannot play every game; he plays the odd game, and towards the end of games, and that's it. Itten can come in, but actually, he's not shown enough to warrant that spot -- until recently; He played well against Poznan and did well when he came on against Dundee Utd for the final few minutes.

I think Defoe has earned more game time. With regards to Itten, I find this a bit of a circular argument. He can only warrant it if he plays, and it was no surprise to me that he did so well on Thursday and IMO he showed that he should have had more game time up until now. Even in brief cameos I have felt there has been ample evidence he has the ability to play the CF role well. It is unfortunate from his point of view that he has often been asked to play off the striker.

 

47 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

Your criticism is overblown. 

Funnily enough, I have found some of the criticism overblown. Not on this forum, but I have seen words like "rotten" used. His overall play was ok yesterday, I just think others would have offered more, and he did have some very poor moments aside from in front of goal.

I can come across harsher on Morelos because I have long believed him to be vastly overrated by our fans, so I do find it a bit frustrating when he gets defended to the hilt when so many of the rest of our players don't get anything like this kind of backing. Almost every other player in our starting 11 has endured a spell of significant criticism from what seemed like the vast majority of our fans and in those cases I was on the side of defending the player each time (Kent the only exception). It comes down to how you view the game and judge a player and I tend to favour more technical players.

Edited December 14, 2020 by DMAA