Rangers 'B' team to take part in Lowland League next season

[Bill 13,717]

1 minute ago, the gunslinger said:

others may differ but I can't force them to be right. 

They might manage to be right all by themselves.

[gaspard 562]

What Robertson didn't say is that this proposal is in fact plan B.

The original proposal was an expanded league 2, 

The swifts and young bheasts joining along with 2 from the Highland and 2 from the lowland.

There would be no promotion for the big 2 but there was guaranteed payments from us and them to the Scottish league along with other contractual incentives.

It was considered a goer earlier this year, but obviously something has happened to kibosh that model and the lowland version is now being offered. 

[Rousseau 9,351]

10 hours ago, JohnMc said:

I don't agree with you that playing in the lower leagues as a young player is detrimental. A look at the current Scotland squad suggests the opposite in fact. What holds back player development is not playing matches. Yes, players can pick up bad habits, but frankly they can do that at Rangers too. Surely playing in the Championship is better for a player's development than playing in the Lowland League. The intensity and level of football is higher in the Championship than in the Lowland League.

 

I'm interested in the idea that by remaining at Rangers and being trained at Auchenhowie the player will develop better than if they're at Arbroath on loan. If that's the case then why haven't Rangers produced countless first team players in the last decade? If keeping control of their training and development is what matters then surely we've had that all along? If Kai Kennedy fails to make it into the Rangers first team is that the fault of Raith Rovers?  

 

Scottish football is at a low ebb, riven by self interest and short-termism and hampered by a lack of finance. I'm happy to see if playing our youngsters in the Lowland League will help but I'm sceptical.  

I agreed that they would toughen up, but I still believe they don't really learn anything useful for their move up to Rangers. How many Rangers youngsters have actually made it into our first-team after playing on loan at Championship sides? The intensity and level of football may be higher (not by much, IMO), but it doesn't help them get a game for Rangers, and it doesn't develop them into well-rounded players - too many Scottish clubs have no idea what a well-rounded player is! McCrorie has played every game for Livingston, but apparently -- going by comments on here, (by yourself?) -- he's not ready for Rangers.

 

Regular matches, yes, but how many of the current Scotland squad would make it at Rangers, when they were on our radar, so to speak? Roberston did well at Utd, but were we clamouring for his signature? No, he had to go up a level, to Hull. McGinn? I actually thought we should sign him when he was at Hibs, but the majority thought he was p*sh. Again, he's had to go up a level. They are good players, but I wouldn't say they are well-rounded. Robertson is just hard-working, with a wonderful left-foot. McGinn is similarly hard-working. 

 

It's not just playing at Auchenhowie, it's playing against elite players in their age-range. Our 'B' team was playing against the best sides, and because the players are not outmatched physically, they can develop their technical skills while playing in a system similar to our first-team.  You could argue that players developed from our 'B' team actually look much more rounded, and better technically, than anything produced before (McPake, Kennedy, Kelly, Mabude, Dickson, King etc -- I think Gilmour, too, but maybe not?). 

 

So, for me, we've got a structure that can develop good players. I would then agree that the next stage is regular games. Surely they'll get games for the Colts? They wouldn't use the team skills they'd learned if they were to go on loan. They'll have the team around them to play a certain way, utilising their technical skills, all the while playing regular games against 'tough' opposition.  

 

The 'B' team in the leagues is a win-win, for me. 

[JohnMc 2,463]

28 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

I agreed that they would toughen up, but I still believe they don't really learn anything useful for their move up to Rangers. How many Rangers youngsters have actually made it into our first-team after playing on loan at Championship sides? The intensity and level of football may be higher (not by much, IMO), but it doesn't help them get a game for Rangers, and it doesn't develop them into well-rounded players - too many Scottish clubs have no idea what a well-rounded player is! McCrorie has played every game for Livingston, but apparently -- going by comments on here, (by yourself?) -- he's not ready for Rangers.

 

Regular matches, yes, but how many of the current Scotland squad would make it at Rangers, when they were on our radar, so to speak? Roberston did well at Utd, but were we clamouring for his signature? No, he had to go up a level, to Hull. McGinn? I actually thought we should sign him when he was at Hibs, but the majority thought he was p*sh. Again, he's had to go up a level. They are good players, but I wouldn't say they are well-rounded. Robertson is just hard-working, with a wonderful left-foot. McGinn is similarly hard-working. 

 

It's not just playing at Auchenhowie, it's playing against elite players in their age-range. Our 'B' team was playing against the best sides, and because the players are not outmatched physically, they can develop their technical skills while playing in a system similar to our first-team.  You could argue that players developed from our 'B' team actually look much more rounded, and better technically, than anything produced before (McPake, Kennedy, Kelly, Mabude, Dickson, King etc -- I think Gilmour, too, but maybe not?). 

 

So, for me, we've got a structure that can develop good players. I would then agree that the next stage is regular games. Surely they'll get games for the Colts? They wouldn't use the team skills they'd learned if they were to go on loan. They'll have the team around them to play a certain way, utilising their technical skills, all the while playing regular games against 'tough' opposition.  

 

The 'B' team in the leagues is a win-win, for me. 

The gap between the Lowland League and the Championship is considerable. The vast majority of sides in the Championship are comparable to half the SPFL, you could swap St Mirren, Ross County and Motherwell with Dundee, Raith Rovers and Dunfermline and see no change in quality. 

 

Under Gerrard really only Nathan Paterson has played for our first team and even that was only because Tav was injured. Kennedy, Barjonas and McPake have had cameos but our recent record of introducing young players isn't great. Obviously Allan McGregor went out on loan as a young player, as did Charlie Adam and both went on to have decent careers. Barrie McKay also went out on loan more recently before returning and making an impact in the first team. But overall I agree we've struggled to introduce young players whatever route we've taken. I don't think I've mentioned Robbie McCrorie, what I would say about him is he's not played every game for Livingston, indeed he's struggled to become first choice there this season. I doubt either of us see him as better than McGregor or McLaughlin currently. 

 

In terms of the current Scotland squad I'd say Andy Robertson (Queens Park), John McGinn (St Mirren), Lyndon Dykes (QOTS), Ryan Fraser (Aberdeen), Ryan Christie (ICT), Stuart Armstrong (Dundee Utd), Kevin Nisbett (Dunfermline) and Robert Snodgrass (Livingston) would all improve our squad and challenge for a first team place. I've only picked the ones who started their careers in Scotland at a club outside of Rangers and Celtic. We can all debate the merits of each individual and I'm not proposing signing any of them, just pointing out their route to top level football. 

 

Some players simply need games, they need to play at a decent level along with grown men to develop. This isn't solely about physicality, this is about mentality. It's about learning that failing to track a runner or switching off for a moment can lead to the loss of a win bonus, something that can make a huge difference to a full time professional at that level. Those players won't be shy in letting a young player know what's expected and when they've let their team-mates down. I think we make certain assumptions about players at Championship level. In fact many of the players at that level are model professionals, guys making a living with significantly less natural ability than the young Rangers lads, guys with good habits and great work ethics.

 

Look at our current side just now. Only Allan McGregor (who did go out on loan to smaller sides), Steve Davis, Jermain Defoe (spent a season on loan at Bournemouth) and arguably Helandar came through at 'big clubs' in the top leagues. Every other player in our side was either released by a big club and rebuilt their career at a lower level or came through at a smaller side. You could argue Ryan Kent but ultimately he wasn't troubling the Liverpool first team. 

 

Indeed I'd probably struggle to pick a side from the last 50 years of players who have come through at Rangers, and made a proper impression on the first team without a loan spell or starting their careers at a smaller club. Derek Johnstone, Derek Parlane, Bobby Fleck, Ian Durrant, Barry Ferguson, Allan Hutton, Lewis MacLeod. There will be others I've forgotten but it's not a long list. 

 

I'm far from an expert on this subject, it's just my observations and I accept the guys at the club now weren't there for much of the past 50 years, but I've come to the conclusion Rangers probably shouldn't be involved in youth development. 

[Rousseau 9,351]

41 minutes ago, JohnMc said:

The gap between the Lowland League and the Championship is considerable. The vast majority of sides in the Championship are comparable to half the SPFL, you could swap St Mirren, Ross County and Motherwell with Dundee, Raith Rovers and Dunfermline and see no change in quality. 

 

Under Gerrard really only Nathan Paterson has played for our first team and even that was only because Tav was injured. Kennedy, Barjonas and McPake have had cameos but our recent record of introducing young players isn't great. Obviously Allan McGregor went out on loan as a young player, as did Charlie Adam and both went on to have decent careers. Barrie McKay also went out on loan more recently before returning and making an impact in the first team. But overall I agree we've struggled to introduce young players whatever route we've taken. I don't think I've mentioned Robbie McCrorie, what I would say about him is he's not played every game for Livingston, indeed he's struggled to become first choice there this season. I doubt either of us see him as better than McGregor or McLaughlin currently. 

 

In terms of the current Scotland squad I'd say Andy Robertson (Queens Park), John McGinn (St Mirren), Lyndon Dykes (QOTS), Ryan Fraser (Aberdeen), Ryan Christie (ICT), Stuart Armstrong (Dundee Utd), Kevin Nisbett (Dunfermline) and Robert Snodgrass (Livingston) would all improve our squad and challenge for a first team place. I've only picked the ones who started their careers in Scotland at a club outside of Rangers and Celtic. We can all debate the merits of each individual and I'm not proposing signing any of them, just pointing out their route to top level football. 

 

Some players simply need games, they need to play at a decent level along with grown men to develop. This isn't solely about physicality, this is about mentality. It's about learning that failing to track a runner or switching off for a moment can lead to the loss of a win bonus, something that can make a huge difference to a full time professional at that level. Those players won't be shy in letting a young player know what's expected and when they've let their team-mates down. I think we make certain assumptions about players at Championship level. In fact many of the players at that level are model professionals, guys making a living with significantly less natural ability than the young Rangers lads, guys with good habits and great work ethics.

 

Look at our current side just now. Only Allan McGregor (who did go out on loan to smaller sides), Steve Davis, Jermain Defoe (spent a season on loan at Bournemouth) and arguably Helandar came through at 'big clubs' in the top leagues. Every other player in our side was either released by a big club and rebuilt their career at a lower level or came through at a smaller side. You could argue Ryan Kent but ultimately he wasn't troubling the Liverpool first team. 

 

Indeed I'd probably struggle to pick a side from the last 50 years of players who have come through at Rangers, and made a proper impression on the first team without a loan spell or starting their careers at a smaller club. Derek Johnstone, Derek Parlane, Bobby Fleck, Ian Durrant, Barry Ferguson, Allan Hutton, Lewis MacLeod. There will be others I've forgotten but it's not a long list. 

 

I'm far from an expert on this subject, it's just my observations and I accept the guys at the club now weren't there for much of the past 50 years, but I've come to the conclusion Rangers probably shouldn't be involved in youth development. 

The gap might be considerable in terms of quality, but in terms of style and what they're doing and how they play... ? I'm not convinced. 

 

(I omitted 'Keepers and any player (e.g. McKay) that broke through during the banter years, because they're different circumstances.)

 

The issue, for us (Rangers), is getting player X from the youth set-up (including any loan periods he may have) into the first-team squad. 

 

The current loan set-up is not helping us: they're not learning enough, and/or not playing enough. 

 

I think the 'B' team system is a step in the right direction because it produces better, well-rounded players. I think we've got a group of decent players. We're able to control their development, and pit them against elite sides in their own age range. They're also trained the way the first-team will play, so the transition to the first-team becomes easier -- It doesn’t mean they’re ready to slot straight in, but it means that they understand the requirements. 

 

The next stage is getting them regular games. A Colts team will give them that. You can argue about the quality, but I'm not sure it's an issue if they get regular games and are in a controlled environment. 

 

Youth Development is difficult for us - it should be easier being a bigger club, but it's not. We could go down the Brentford route, closing the Academy and just plucking those players that are let go by bigger clubs or poach them from smaller clubs? You'd still need a 'B' team for that, though; to assess them and develop them. 

 

Like I've said, a 'B' team, playing in the leagues, is a win-win, for me.

 

You keep saying, quite correctly, Scottish football is at a low ebb, but then you seem to be shooting down anything done differently, or a new idea - Joining an Atlantic league, a 'B' team, a 'B' team in the league pyramid, the whole youth Academy... ! I jest...

[Bill 13,717]

In my ill-informed opinion, Rangers not only should but must be involved in player development. Not just with a view to producing first team players, although that would be a distinct bonus, but with a view to creating product that can generate income in both the short and (mainly) long term. I believe that can only be achieved if everyone at the club, at all levels, is part of the same integrated programme. Actually, it's the only approach that makes any sense and the current management team obviously think so too.

 

Simply relying on a regime of loaning out players clearly isn't working, the evidence is there in the stats. That's not to say that a loan deal won't continue to be the best option for the right player in the right circumstances but we clearly need more than that. It might even be that a combination of internal coaching in a competitive setting and occasional short-term loans is the way forward, perhaps focussing on partner clubs. The Lowland League isn't the best level for us but at the moment it's the only option available and we'll have to try to progress that as best we can in the future. I definitely see this as a progressive approach by a management team with a clear vision of how to break out of our past inertia.

[RANGERRAB 3,254]

I genuinely wonder if the standard in this league is sufficient 

[MacK1950 2,230]

Don't think the standard of the league is a problem as I see the reasoning to be that the "Colts" will have their chance to play as a team and not having to come back from loan deals where tactics used probably hugely differed.

[Rousseau 9,351]

8 minutes ago, RANGERRAB said:

I genuinely wonder if the standard in this league is sufficient 

As @Bill said, ideally, we'd want to put the Colts in a league higher up, but this is the only option at the moment. 

[der Berliner 3,231]

A few years ago we had that season "off" and our youngsters etc. were playing against European counterparts every / other week. That sure helped their development and growing as a personality too. Obviously, in times of Coivd-19, that`s hardly an option, but having this B-Teams in the lower leagues will essentially kill that idea, unless we agree few friendlies.

 

Of course, I reckon that this is a good chance to give our youngsters and second string players much needed competitive football, but as has been said, the quality of opposition  might/will not be great. Haven`t checked the idea for Scotland in detail, but in Germany, the B or u23s sides can rise through the leagues too, with the one exception that they can never get promoted into a league where the first team plays, even if they are champions in their lower league.