European Championship 2020 (2021)

[Franc Ergs 1,348]

Anyone spot the Scotland flag with a pic of Arnie ,and 'We'll be back ' written on it ?  ?

[Rousseau 9,292]

I'm not sure we have a "Capitalistic ethic", but I'm not clever enough to rebut your point. ? 

 

I also find it insulting that we need an "over-arching narrative" like Christianity to provide us with a moral framework. This is too much of Nietzche's Slave Morality -- which Christianity championed -- it's just taken a more secular, marxist form today. 

[Gonzo79 13,541]

6 minutes ago, Franc Ergs said:

Anyone spot the Scotland flag with a pic of Arnie ,and 'We'll be back ' written on it ?  ?

Aye, saw that.  Diddy behaviour.

[bmck 117]

4 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

I'm not sure we have a "Capitalistic ethic", but I'm not clever enough to rebut your point. ? 

 

I also find it insulting that we need an "over-arching narrative" like Christianity to provide us with a moral framework. This is too much of Nietzche's Slave Morality -- which Christianity championed -- it's just taken a more secular, marxist form today. 

You're barking up my tree - as you can probably tell from my ressentiment comment yesterday - and I agree completely that the cults of the West we are witnessing these days are just Christianity stripped of its virtues. The scientific community aren't all that different, with their idea of progress - like history is going in some direction. However, as we know from Classics a polis can't survive unless there's a common understanding of what its values and ethics are. Britain had it good for a while, in that the middle class wanted to be upper class, and those aristos values were fundamentally Classical but clothed in the decent drapery of Christianity. Also, for all its ills, Christianity brought new virtues to the table - forgiveness and the redemptive arch. We'd be worse off without them, religious or irreligious, and that life was intrinsicially meaningful. Nietszche made the error the Romans and Greeks never would, and that was tht he thought human nature could change. Also the same error these new cults made. It doesn't. It's a constant. There's a limited value set to choose from, and then degrees of them. The whole fiasco of the West is people doing that with the shoe-horn effect. I'm happy with the words scribed on the Temple at the belly of the world "Know thyself" and "Everything in moderation" (including moderation, my addition.) However, if we don't sort out some sort of core Western values - Christianity, Enlightenment, Classical - and have it as the substrata, we are done. It ties into my point about a capitalistic ethic. It would have been uncouth to be defined by and brag about how much you've got and what you can afford to wear or put pics on Instagram of your money a short while ago, even as you were using free market economics to accumulate wealth. Anyway, thread sufficiently derailed.

[Gonzo79 13,541]

That's what I like about these forums...from a few drunken idiots throwing bottles and tipping bins to Nietzsche and Western philosophy in a matter of minutes/posts.

[bmck 117]

5 minutes ago, bmck said:

You're barking up my tree - as you can probably tell from my ressentiment comment yesterday - and I agree completely that the cults of the West we are witnessing these days are just Christianity stripped of its virtues. The scientific community aren't all that different, with their idea of progress - like history is going in some direction. However, as we know from Classics a polis can't survive unless there's a common understanding of what its values and ethics are. Britain had it good for a while, in that the middle class wanted to be upper class, and those aristos values were fundamentally Classical but clothed in the decent drapery of Christianity. Also, for all its ills, Christianity brought new virtues to the table - forgiveness and the redemptive arch. We'd be worse off without them, religious or irreligious, and that life was intrinsicially meaningful. Nietszche made the error the Romans and Greeks never would, and that was tht he thought human nature could change. Also the same error these new cults made. It doesn't. It's a constant. There's a limited value set to choose from, and then degrees of them. The whole fiasco of the West is people doing that with the shoe-horn effect. I'm happy with the words scribed on the Temple at the belly of the world "Know thyself" and "Everything in moderation" (including moderation, my addition.) However, if we don't sort out some sort of core Western values - Christianity, Enlightenment, Classical - and have it as the substrata, we are done. It ties into my point about a capitalistic ethic. It would have been uncouth to be defined by and brag about how much you've got and what you can afford to wear or put pics on Instagram of your money a short while ago, even as you were using free market economics to accumulate wealth. Anyway, thread sufficiently derailed.

I'm not even sure I agree with myself here, there would have been a better way to answer this.

[Uilleam 5,394]

20 minutes ago, bmck said:

I'm not even sure I agree with myself here, there would have been a better way to answer this.

Bread and circuses.

 

 

[alexscottislegend 2,043]

21 minutes ago, bmck said:

I'm not even sure I agree with myself here, there would have been a better way to answer this.

I sort of get what you're saying but you veer perilously close to cynicism, which is not an endearing trait. I may be an idealist but I hope for a future which the author  of this quote yearned:

I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full.”

 

 

[alexscottislegend 2,043]

4 minutes ago, Uilleam said:

Bread and circuses.

 

 

A bit off topic, but you might appreciate this:

 

I'm sure I read that our B team in the match against Clyde, had a substitute called Cervantes. Is that why the performance was so quixotic?

[alexscottislegend 2,043]

56 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

I'm not sure we have a "Capitalistic ethic", but I'm not clever enough to rebut your point. ? 

 

I also find it insulting that we need an "over-arching narrative" like Christianity to provide us with a moral framework. This is too much of Nietzche's Slave Morality -- which Christianity championed -- it's just taken a more secular, marxist form today. 

You're right about Nietzche but wrong about today's 'marxism.'  That's like that Tory MP on tv yesterday going on about footballers being marxists. He wouldn't recognise one if he tripped over him in the street.