ranger_syntax 3,715 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 39 minutes ago, stewarty said: ... And don't bother coming back with something about there being no evidence that Putin intends to continue his '[convoluted waffle redacted]' beyond Ukraine, because that is also arrant nonsense. You can't read his mind in the same way that you can't read the mind of other forum users. In terms of capabilities he can't take on N.A.T.O. in a conventional war. As mentioned before there are non-N.A.T.O. countries he could defeat very easily. Nobody can say why these countries are of interest to us. Instead of making repeated assertions you should respond to these points. (If you can bear to stop talking about your imagined opponent, ranger_syntaxovich, for just one moment that is.) 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewarty 1,871 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, ranger_syntax said: You can't read his mind in the same way that you can't read the mind of other forum users. In terms of capabilities he can't take on N.A.T.O. in a conventional war. As mentioned before there are non-N.A.T.O. countries he could defeat very easily. Nobody can say why these countries are of interest to us. Instead of making repeated assertions you should respond to these points. (If you can bear to stop talking about your imagined opponent, ranger_syntaxovich, for just one moment that is.) Lol. Hence why I’m judging him on what he says and what he does. It’s not too difficult, unless you try to avoid such inconveniences. PS - again you ignore the substance of the point made. PPS - I like your new username better. Edited July 12, 2022 by stewarty 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,048 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 42 minutes ago, ranger_syntax said: You can't read his mind in the same way that you can't read the mind of other forum users. I concur as that particular gift as far as I can see is the exclusive reserve of you and Buster either that or it's just plain old fashioned narcissism. Clouds in coffee and aĺl that..... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranger_syntax 3,715 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 15 minutes ago, forlanssister said: I concur as that particular gift as far as I can see is the exclusive reserve of you and Buster either that or it's just plain old fashioned narcissism. Clouds in coffee and aĺl that..... I don't think so. Wrong again. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranger_syntax 3,715 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 5 hours ago, stewarty said: Hence why I’m judging him on what he says ... Which utterance suggests that he will attack a country that is either in N.A.T.O. or of vital strategic interest to the United Kingdom? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranger_syntax 3,715 Posted July 12, 2022 Share Posted July 12, 2022 5 hours ago, stewarty said: ... PS - again you ignore the substance of the point made. ... I'm not sure which point you are referring to but I'll tell you what I think about the following. 6 hours ago, stewarty said: I'm not qualified to say, but the Ukraine side are appealing regularly for more support including and particularly heavy weaponry. And yes war prolongs suffering, but so will the yoke of Putin. The people of Ukraine choose to fight for their sovereignty and way of life. If we sat back and offered no help, by default we will be passively (unwittingly?) encouraging Putin. ... Ukrainian appeals are not important in comparison to British interests. Nobody ever articulates what interests we have in the Ukraine. I can only assume that 'the yoke of Putin' means the Ukraine being a client/vassal of Russia. If so then that will involve less dead people, less economic disruption and less spending on aid. That the people of the Ukraine choose to fight doesn't justify our intervention either. The United Kingdom is supposed to be a sovereign country. Why would the actions of people thousands of miles away compel us to send them guns and money while housing their families? Offering help increases the likelihood of attack. If we provided enough military aid to help the Ukraine win then we risk even worse problems. Russia has a lot of nuclear weapons. We can deter Russia from attacking N.A.T.O. countries simply by strengthening within the existing bounds of N.A.T.O. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster. 4,808 Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 18 hours ago, stewarty said: I accept your concern for ordinary people, but the rest to me is just arrant nonsense. Ukraine did not invade Russia. Ukraine needs help or it will be cancelled (if its not already cancelled in huge swathes) in the most brutal manner. This is the very reality that the false equivalency over media bias does not address. And whilst we continue to have a war in mainland Europe, proxy or otherwise, and for all the reasons you state about survival, the "direction of travel in the West" (whatever that means), is not a priority and in any case will not be addressed. Unless you would prefer to live in a world where you were not free to express yourself and be critical of government? For that is also the reality for the sort of authoritarian regime that Putin will impose on Ukraine if he gets his way. To say arrant nonsense suggests either that you don't really understand what is going on and don't really want to go any further into things, beyond your simplistic position. Opinion is fine but you don't get to tell me what is important in this debate or choose what is relevant. Yesterday, you laboured a largely irrelevant question to me, whilst wanting to pass on the implications of a prolonged war, which your stance inevitably leads to. To dismiss the extensive propaganda disseminated in the West as something irrelevant or that doesn't actually exist is another refusal to go down an inconvenient road for your logic/lack of solution. Have you posted on what has been going on in Yemen and the part the UK play in that ? Do we have lots of refugees from Yemen ? Is the UK sending arms and expertise to support the suffering country ? Do the media here give it the prominence it merits ? #Hypocrisy Freedom to express opinion to power (#Ask Assange) I get that in Russia that will be limited and to do it in a meaningful way would probably put you in danger. But you haven't been paying attention if you think everything is dandy in this regard in the West. You get to a level where you start to effect certain interests and extensive machinary will be rolled out to cancel you and then there is our lame mainstream media, largely influenced, bought and paid for. From a long way back, the Russian people know they get fed bullshit. In the West, when served, we tend to lap up a more subtle form of bullshit (although there is a growing awareness taking root). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster. 4,808 Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 17 hours ago, ranger_syntax said: Why not explain his error rather than just asserting that he has made one? I mean you can't imagine that it is informative to let us know that you disagree with Buster about something. Bill almost never gets involved in explaining exactly to me why I'm wrong on any given subject or actually debating anything with me. Instead, it tends to be a pompous and largely empty put down of the point or/and me. The one other route he has taken (not so much), is to go silent for a while, examples of this were threads on racism and fracking. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster. 4,808 Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 17 hours ago, Bill said: Best that he keeps posting this stuff. Are you curious why anyone would promote Russia so vigorously on small* a football forum. It becomes more absurd by the day. He isn't promoting Russia. As for having a lot to say about politics on a "small football forum"..........take a look in the mirror. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster. 4,808 Posted July 13, 2022 Share Posted July 13, 2022 11 hours ago, ranger_syntax said: I'm not sure which point you are referring to but I'll tell you what I think about the following. Ukrainian appeals are not important in comparison to British interests. Nobody ever articulates what interests we have in the Ukraine. I can only assume that 'the yoke of Putin' means the Ukraine being a client/vassal of Russia. If so then that will involve less dead people, less economic disruption and less spending on aid. That the people of the Ukraine choose to fight doesn't justify our intervention either. The United Kingdom is supposed to be a sovereign country. Why would the actions of people thousands of miles away compel us to send them guns and money while housing their families? Offering help increases the likelihood of attack. If we provided enough military aid to help the Ukraine win then we risk even worse problems. Russia has a lot of nuclear weapons. We can deter Russia from attacking N.A.T.O. countries simply by strengthening within the existing bounds of N.A.T.O. Good points I await a constructive reply...... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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