Bill 13,687 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 22 minutes ago, stewarty said: But this is no spontaneous phenomenon. Putin spends hundreds of millions of dollars a year on disinformation campaigns targeted at the West. It is part of a hybrid warfare strategy that sees the undermining of belief in democracy, trust in government and the media as crucial to disorganising Russia’s adversaries. I wonder what his little group on Gersnet costs him. Probably not a lot. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevermind 153 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 I read somewhere that Putin is offering Ladas to the families of neutralised Russians in Ukraine as part of a compensation package. Surely the supply and demand on that will burn through the Lada reserves pretty quickly given how many Russians are getting hammered? Is this war likely to give rise to groups from Ukraine who will start targeting big city Russian rail stations, or is Ukraine going to be 100% defence? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewarty 1,871 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 53 minutes ago, Bill said: I wonder what his little group on Gersnet costs him. Probably not a lot. I would take their arguments much more seriously if there was any semblance of balance in terms of the use of such sources. But to basically list a bunch of sources which appear to have a pro-Russian stance, whilst offering no critique of their veracity... I'm afraid its hard not to dismiss them out of hand. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewarty 1,871 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 22 minutes ago, Nevermind said: I read somewhere that Putin is offering Ladas to the families of neutralised Russians in Ukraine as part of a compensation package. Surely the supply and demand on that will burn through the Lada reserves pretty quickly given how many Russians are getting hammered? Is this war likely to give rise to groups from Ukraine who will start targeting big city Russian rail stations, or is Ukraine going to be 100% defence? There's plenty of rumours about random explosions in Russia and whether they have been perpetrated by Ukraine/Ukraine allies. I certainly wouldn't rule it out. I think things are going to get a lot uglier over the winter before we see any sort of resolution. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewarty 1,871 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 Curiosity got the better of me so I decided to read a little on one of the other quoted sources... Laurie Meadows. She has her own blog website and i started to read this: https://www.lauriemeadows.info/conflict_security/Treaties_of _Settlement-Ukraine.html I'll be generous and say its a one-sided perspective, but I had to stop when I got to the following: "I don't know what Russia will do. I do know what Russia wants for itself, and for others, because it has publicly stated it. I do know it wants normal relations with Ukraine, because it has said so. And the Russians almost never lie." @der BerlinerI can only assume you were taking the piss in quoting these sources. Its beyond embarrassing if not. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,147 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 (edited) See, I don`t preach to anyone of you. I gave you a list of sources who themselves use sources and figures readily available for anyone who looks for it. More often than not, Western sources. "Shooting" a messenger like Baud (and I truly find the amount of effort of denial put in this little inquisition amazing) is ignoring what he actually lists and what can be verified. But I - and others - see this a lot. Rather than check out what is being written about and also check the sources, it is the messenger being ridiculed or denounced as somehow impartial. (BTW, if those who do that think that their own sources and people are in any way impartial or free in what they think/write/report upon, they are truly lost.) I for one keep on open mind upon either sources, but the amount of blatant propaganda, be it from German or British media, the amount of incompetence shown by politicians in the West just beggars belief. What is even more astonishing is the fact that the US and the British waged wars all over the planet, toppled democracies, committed warcrimes and whatnot, reported in their own media over and over again, yet still people in said countries - when it comes to the the Soviet Union/Russia - gulp any shit that is presented to them, any lie, no matter how stupid. To a point that a different opinion or perspective is by default "wrong" or must be "tainted". Just think about that and the replies given to my simple list of other than MSM sources. That Austrian tank school guy is also talking bull, I assume? Buster, as I have told before, I happened to live 20 years in East Germany. Whatever a Western mind will make of that is up to that Western mind (and 9 out of 10 times ignorant trash borne out of arrogance), those years and all that I have learned from my parents et al have not installed any fear of the Soviet Union / Russia in me (and most former East Germans of my age and older). As opposed to you (EDIT: ) Britons, who have been taught and raised in a deeply ingrained dislike/distrust/hatred/fear/you name it of anything that comes from USSR/Russia. Hence, much like I see it with those West Germans of previous and current generations these days, I can fully understand your opinion and can accept that. Without ridiculing that standpoint. Maybe you stand back and acknowledge that some 70+ % of the world`s population are on my side of the coin there, in so far that they don`t fear Russia and don`t gulp anything the West presents to the world. Edited August 5, 2022 by der Berliner 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,048 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Nevermind said: I read somewhere that Putin is offering Ladas to the families of neutralised Russians in Ukraine as part of a compensation package. Surely the supply and demand on that will burn through the Lada reserves pretty quickly given how many Russians are getting hammered? Is this war likely to give rise to groups from Ukraine who will start targeting big city Russian rail stations, or is Ukraine going to be 100% defence? Thought they stopped producing Lada's months ago as they couldn't get imported components. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewarty 1,871 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 1 hour ago, der Berliner said: See, I don`t preach to anyone of you. I gave you a list of sources who themselves use sources and figures readily available for anyone who looks for it. More often than not, Western sources. "Shooting" a messenger like Baud (and I truly find the amount of effort of denial put in this little inquisition amazing) is ignoring what he actually lists and what can be verified. But I - and others - see this a lot. Rather than check out what is being written about and also check the sources, it is the messenger being ridiculed or denounced as somehow impartial. (BTW, if those who do that think that their own sources and people are in any way impartial or free in what they think/write/report upon, they are truly lost.) I for one keep on open mind upon either sources, but the amount of blatant propaganda, be it from German or British media, the amount of incompetence shown by politicians in the West just beggars belief. What is even more astonishing is the fact that the US and the British waged wars all over the planet, toppled democracies, committed warcrimes and whatnot, reported in their own media over and over again, yet still people in said countries - when it comes to the the Soviet Union/Russia - gulp any shit that is presented to them, any lie, no matter how stupid. To a point that a different opinion or perspective is by default "wrong" or must be "tainted". Just think about that and the replies given to my simple list of other than MSM sources. That Austrian tank school guy is also talking bull, I assume? Buster, as I have told before, I happened to live 20 years in East Germany. Whatever a Western mind will make of that is up to that Western mind (and 9 out of 10 times ignorant trash borne out of arrogance), those years and all that I have learned from my parents et al have not installed any fear of the Soviet Union / Russia in me (and most former East Germans of my age and older). As opposed to you, who have been taught and raised in a deeply ingrained dislike/distrust/hatred/fear/you name it of anything that comes from USSR/Russia. Hence, much like I see it with those West Germans of previous and current generations these days, I can fully understand your opinion and can accept that. Without ridiculing that standpoint. Maybe you stand back and acknowledge that some 70+ % of the world`s population are on my side of the coin there, in so far that they don`t fear Russia and don`t gulp anything the West presents to the world. I checked out (some of) your sources and took them at face value until it become obvious that they are not balanced or fair in their assessments. And for the avoidance of doubt, that is a very different thing than saying that mainstream sources are balanced and fair in their assessments. When you promote the sort of propaganda-riddled sources that you criticise the West/MSM for, I'm not shooting the messenger, nor am I preaching; I'm calling out hypocrisy. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewarty 1,871 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 1 hour ago, der Berliner said: See, I don`t preach to anyone of you. I gave you a list of sources who themselves use sources and figures readily available for anyone who looks for it. More often than not, Western sources. "Shooting" a messenger like Baud (and I truly find the amount of effort of denial put in this little inquisition amazing) is ignoring what he actually lists and what can be verified. But I - and others - see this a lot. Rather than check out what is being written about and also check the sources, it is the messenger being ridiculed or denounced as somehow impartial. (BTW, if those who do that think that their own sources and people are in any way impartial or free in what they think/write/report upon, they are truly lost.) I for one keep on open mind upon either sources, but the amount of blatant propaganda, be it from German or British media, the amount of incompetence shown by politicians in the West just beggars belief. What is even more astonishing is the fact that the US and the British waged wars all over the planet, toppled democracies, committed warcrimes and whatnot, reported in their own media over and over again, yet still people in said countries - when it comes to the the Soviet Union/Russia - gulp any shit that is presented to them, any lie, no matter how stupid. To a point that a different opinion or perspective is by default "wrong" or must be "tainted". Just think about that and the replies given to my simple list of other than MSM sources. That Austrian tank school guy is also talking bull, I assume? Buster, as I have told before, I happened to live 20 years in East Germany. Whatever a Western mind will make of that is up to that Western mind (and 9 out of 10 times ignorant trash borne out of arrogance), those years and all that I have learned from my parents et al have not installed any fear of the Soviet Union / Russia in me (and most former East Germans of my age and older). As opposed to you, who have been taught and raised in a deeply ingrained dislike/distrust/hatred/fear/you name it of anything that comes from USSR/Russia. Hence, much like I see it with those West Germans of previous and current generations these days, I can fully understand your opinion and can accept that. Without ridiculing that standpoint. Maybe you stand back and acknowledge that some 70+ % of the world`s population are on my side of the coin there, in so far that they don`t fear Russia and don`t gulp anything the West presents to the world. I watched a few mins of the Austrian tank guy. He seems fair, wasn't preaching a message, but was offering his take on battlefield developments. I'll stand by the points made about the other two sources I looked at though. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7 5,009 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 1 hour ago, der Berliner said: , I can fully understand your opinion and can accept that. Without ridiculing that standpoint. Maybe you stand back and acknowledge that some 70+ % of the world`s population are on my side of the coin there, in so far that they don`t fear Russia and don`t gulp anything the West presents to the world. Have you mistaken buster for somebody else? I think he’s generally on your side in this topic. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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