Bill 13,687 Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, Malangsob said: However, I think if i got into the where's and why's of that I would sidetrack this thread As far as I know, anyone can start a new topic if they have something worthwhile to say. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malangsob 1,157 Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 5 hours ago, Bill said: Why buy comic books when you can read all the sanctimonious fiction you could ever need, right here on social media. What part is fantasy? Have not increased the size of NATO since 1996? For what goal? Russia presented no existential threat. Fun fact, Putin actually lobbied with Clinton to become a part of NATO. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule The fact is, there was a line, a cultural, political, and geographic line set. Ukraine has it written into their constitution that they will be a non-nuclear combatant. https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-26676051 This was a stipulation required by Russia, and agreed to by Ukraine when the Soviet bloc dissolved. Zelensky, and Ukraine have pushed for years to change the Budapest Accord which guaranteed such. So, who expects Russia to permit a country who has belligerent intention toward them to gain nukes with a 5 minute Moscow strike time? Would the west accept this? Come now. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill 13,687 Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 28 minutes ago, Malangsob said: What part is fantasy? Pretty much all of it Have not increased the size of NATO since 1996? Other counties asked to join NATO and were admitted. For what goal? You'd have to ask them why they felt they needed the security of NATO membership, rather than create a myth that NATO expanded by absorbing new territory Russia presented no existential threat. You may chose to say that but it's hardly the same view taken by countries that asked to join NATO. Perhaps those new member countries were in a better position to judge Russia than you. Fun fact, Putin actually lobbied with Clinton to become a part of NATO. God, not this old chestnut again. It's not a fun fact, it's an oblique suggestion that Russia is so benign it could be a member of NATO, which of course is where the fantasy really takes off. There is absolutely no evidence this is true. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule The fact is, there was a line, a cultural, political, and geographic line set. There are always lines. Recent evidence says only Russia is intent on breaching those lines ... wherever and whenever it suits Russia. Ukraine has it written into their constitution that they will be a non-nuclear combatant. When has Ukraine embraced nuclear weapons? Much as some want to paint the west as the nuclear bully, the only country wielding a nuclear threat is Russia https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-26676051 This was a stipulation required by Russia, and agreed to by Ukraine when the Soviet bloc dissolved. Zelensky, and Ukraine have pushed for years to change the Budapest Accord which guaranteed such. The Budapest Accord was intended to protect in the event it gave up it's Soviet nuclear weapons. "The memorandum prohibited the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan." So, who expects Russia to permit a country who has belligerent intention toward them to gain nukes with a 5 minute Moscow strike time? That's just claptrap, both the belligerent intent and the nukes. You seem consumed by conspiracy theories. Would the west accept this? Come now. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranger_syntax 3,715 Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 The N.A.T.O. debate could really go in one of a couple of other threads. But I'll add this point here anyway. Russia couldn't join N.A.T.O. as it is an alliance specifically for vassal states to align with the U.S.A. Russia has, among other things, a giant nuclear arsenal which guarantees that it can exercise an independent foreign policy. The U.S.A. could not turn Russia into a vassal under current circumstances so N.A.T.O. will be used against Russia until these circumstances change. This policy affects energy prices in the United Kingdom. It is not the sole cause of price increases but it is one of many. Few people will bother to think it through but all should be asking why ending Russian independence is so important. Should it really have a material impact on our home finances? Not everyone would choose to spend money in this way. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranger_syntax 3,715 Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 Oh, and if you think that N.A.T.O. is an alliance for the benign then stop buying all that gold and take this once in a lifetime opportunity to purchase a bridge. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutton_blows_goats 4,044 Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 14 hours ago, alexscottislegend said: Well I certainly look forward to Mr Sunak's £400 this autumn, just as I appreciated the £150 off my council tax. Problem is it will also go to those who don't really need it. I can't forget the taxi driver I met who sneered at the state pension because he already was receiving a far greater private pension. There should be some sort of means testing but as to what means within the current system, well search me. Nice of Mr Sunak to pledge to give his £400, that will be funded by taxpayers, to charity as he doesn't really need it. And there folks is a massive part of the problem. I'll be honest and say it bluntly. Getting a one off £400 grant to pay for a £3.5k per year gas and electricity bill means nothing to me. More so when the prices next year will increase again. This is all one massive grift by a bunch of con men. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill 13,687 Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 31 minutes ago, Sutton_blows_goats said: This is all one massive grift by a bunch of con men. Can you explain please - for those of us who need to form opinions based on detail? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutton_blows_goats 4,044 Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 1 minute ago, Bill said: Can you explain please - for those of us who need to form opinions based on detail? Take peoples money Waste the vast majority of it on rubbish and give it to your pals in dodgy deals if things kick off and people get upset about something. give a little bit of money(NHS workers, fuel cost increases or baby boxes) to the people to pretend you care make the thicko's pay for the stuff you 'gave' them don't fix any of the problems in the real world because you are too busy conning people into thinking you care its straight out the SNP playbook. Because the tories in Westminster and the SNP run from the same playbook. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo79 13,349 Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 I'd like to summarise: Russia is being run by a megalomaniac. The USA is a large-scale pain in the arse. Never trust a politician (even less so a bureaucrat). 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo 5,952 Posted May 27, 2022 Author Share Posted May 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Sutton_blows_goats said: Nice of Mr Sunak to pledge to give his £400, that will be funded by taxpayers, to charity as he doesn't really need it. And there folks is a massive part of the problem. I'll be honest and say it bluntly. Getting a one off £400 grant to pay for a £3.5k per year gas and electricity bill means nothing to me. More so when the prices next year will increase again. This is all one massive grift by a bunch of con men. I believe the price cap is to be reviewed every few months from now on 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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