Attitude to SDM

[Bluedell 5,329]

No he wasn't and that's why he left. He might have been a credible manager before he came to Rangers but for whatever reason he could bring that credibility with him.

 

The facts are clear. The chairman's responsibility is to identify, appoint and resource a manager who will bring sustainable success on the field. In the case of PLG, Murray clearly failed to do this. What could be less ambiguous?

 

I'm not biting at this old chestnut of "you can't pin everything on Murray". No one is trying to do that. What I am prepared to do is pin his failings on him, unlike so many who can see no wrong in anything Murray does, I think he has generally been bad for Rangers and it's certainly getting worse.

 

Why shouldn't we be able to voice dissatisfaction with Murray where it's due, without being wrongly accused of blaming him for everything. It appears to me you are defending him against something that just isn't there.

So you agree that when Murray appointed him he did have credibility.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but Murray went out and got a guy who was generally regarded by the guys in the know as being one of the best young managers in Europe. It was well publicised that Murray took advice on it, and did everything I would hope he did before appointing a new manager. What did Murray do wrong in his selection process of PLG?

 

Of course you can voice dissatisfaction with Murray, and I have already said that some of what you said is valid. Why do you think I said that you couldn't?

 

I'm quite happy to pin his failings on him as well, but I can also discuss things like the JJB deal objectively and highlight that there are pros and cons to the deal, and not just dismiss it as ludicrous. I didn't say that you were blaming him for everything, just pointing out that not everything that he had done was bad. There is a difference.

 

I gave my opinion on specific areas that I disagreed on, and gave the reasons. Not sure why that has to evolve into Murray being blamed for everything.

[Cotter 0]

The trouble was Murray didn't back PLG. How come WAlter got �£10m in his first season and PLG got about �£4m? By the way, Clement and Sionko would be great right about now.

[Yieldshields loyal 0]

I agree with that, but like I say, it is their fans who also help with this and ours could do with being a bit more clever about the whole thing. We could trounce Celtic's public image by merely abandoning the weird compulsion to shout, that F phrase and other contentious songs and chants that are sung for sheer bloody mindedness rather than any heart felt beliefs.

 

If we cleaned up our act, we'd at a stroke show them for what they are.

 

I ask you where you sit in the ground? This is what the shit pedalling mhedia would have you believe that we are all numbskulls still singing "sectarian" tunes.

There may be the odd fan who still carries this out, but in the last few years it has decreased to nothing at all, probably the reason the atmosphere is so bad as the normal fan doesn't know what he's allowed to sing anymore.

 

 

The fact that you think their "fans" have helped celtic's public image by stopping the sectarian songs is unreal.

Twice last season at Parkhead for motherwell games we were getting bombarded by every IRA tune they knew

Im trying to avoid the "its them not us" line here, but in reality thats almost true nowadays, and yet amazingly you still think we are the ones at fault.

 

Its bad enough the press pursue this belief but our own supporters

[Wija 0]

It's tough. I think it's clear that turning the other cheek hasn't and currently isn't working. When you look at some of the things that have been written about our club (the support, especially) over the last ten years, it's frightening.

 

Across the city, a throw-away comment about a "bead-rattling hoopy the huddle hound" lost a bloke his job because of Celtic, Lawwell and the permanently offended crew.

 

I don't want Rangers to sink to the level of them but we need to do more. Even finding a balance when you know Celtic will stoop to gutter level would be incredibly hard.

 

 

It is not working because too many Bears are getting too wound up by the cnuts... let them be, they need not concern us.... fook me we have enough sh1t going on...

[Bluedell 5,329]

It is not working because too many Bears are getting too wound up by the cnuts... let them be, they need not concern us.... fook me we have enough sh1t going on...

Tell a lie often enough and people start to believe it. You can't just allow people to continue to peddle lies about us when it has a detremental impact on the club, and some of the abuse of the club, its player and fans has been dreadful over the last few years.

 

The frustrating thing is that it isn't a consistent approach. Murray will use his full resources to defend himself but not anyone else as MF points out earlier in the thread. The club seem to be paying for PR but not getting value for money, but they are quick enough to jump to Mirray's defence.

[Guest Arnold]

Tell a lie often enough and people start to believe it. You can't just allow people to continue to peddle lies about us when it has a detremental impact on the club, and some of the abuse of the club, its player and fans has been dreadful over the last few years.

 

The frustrating thing is that it isn't a consistent approach. Murray will use his full resources to defend himself but not anyone else as MF points out earlier in the thread. The club seem to be paying for PR but not getting value for money, but they are quick enough to jump to Mirray's defence.

 

The PR team was brough in to be purely reactive on anything connected with sectarianism. That's it, and they even failed there.

 

We need a more aggressive, pro-active PR department that will make sure things like Sanjeev Kohli's lies and Keevins' sick Nuremberg rant don't even make it to press.

 

I'm all for criticism of the team when they deserve it but some things are too much.

[calscot 0]

The trouble was Murray didn't back PLG. How come WAlter got �£10m in his first season and PLG got about �£4m? By the way, Clement and Sionko would be great right about now.

 

PLG was offered more money but didn't spend it. Clement was no better than Thomson and probably not as good, and Sionko was a lot worse than Novo.

[calscot 0]

Or his inability to find and attract a credible manager since Souness left (think about it)?

 

I think you are just plain wrong here. Whether his choices have worked does not disguise the fact that ALL his choices were credible.

 

Walter was highly regarded and rewarded us with our best ever European cup run, as well as 7 titles to deliver us 9 in a row. He won many trophies as well.

 

The rest of his Euro exploits were poor but he did enough to justify his appointment.

 

He didn't do so well with Everton but it was under incredibly difficult circumstances.

 

However, he was still credible enough to be handed the assistant manager's job at Man U and went on to restore Scotland's credibility.

 

His first year in the job also justified his appointment but that appears to possibly be the end of his shelf life this time.

 

 

Advocaat came with huge credibility and showed us some great football but his style of management had a two year shelf life. He was sucessful before us and has been successful since.

 

 

Eck was the most promising young manager in Scotland and that's where his credibility came from and he did well with little or no resources at Motherwell and Hibs.

 

 

PLG was the most promising young manager in Europe and had won three titles in a row in France after doing well with a smaller team. No-one could argue with his credentials and he was considered coup at the time.

 

No-one could predict how big a flop he would be. His credibility at appointment was impeccable.

 

 

So to me all the managers were credible and we've had plenty of success at the club since Souness as well as plenty of lows. But I doubt that many could genuinely complain at the choice of managers.

[rbr 1,247]

le guen desperatly wanted to sort out the team , it would have taken a strong chairman to back him, murray bottled it , ferguson won we are where we are because murray is drinking at the last chance saloon .

 

why people cannot accept that the past 20 years have been wasted is beyong me , murray took over when the stadium was rebuilt , the club had money in the bank , a great manager , the england team captain and a purpose . The english were banned from europe and sky tv was not even a distant thought .A few years later they had celtic within 24 hours of going bust , and players of the standard of laudrup and gazza , then the wheels came off the bogey ,murray personally offered salaries way above what was being asked , in some cases agents were not even asking for specific deals they waited on murrays offer ( this I know for a fact ), and we paid the price ,we have been on a downwards spiral ever since whilst our biggest rivals get stronger and stronger , in fact but for two last day wins they would be on course for 7 or 8 in a row , yet some still think murray has done a great job , like i said earlier 20 years and no further forward and not 1 penny of his own money invested in Rangers

[craig 5,195]

PLG was offered more money but didn't spend it. Clement was no better than Thomson and probably not as good, and Sionko was a lot worse than Novo.

 

How do you know that PLG was offered more money ? Has that been confirmed anywhere ?

 

Clement I liked, thought he was a good player, but I do think Thomson is better, at least in that he understands the Scottish game better.

 

Sionko perhaps wasnt the greatest in his time here but he IS a right winger, which Novo isnt - I would like to have seen Sionko play in this 4-5-1 formation of WS's as he could have been a decent player in it (yes PLG deployed something similar - but Sionko only had half a season to adjust to the Scottish game).