CammyF 6,757 Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 Presbyterianism has a high emphasis on the sovereignty of God in all things, including human salvation, a high regard for the authority of Scripture, and an emphasis on the necessity of personal conversion by grace through faith in Christ Jesus alone. Yeh Cammy this is the idea all Rangers supporters go to Ibrox for. No one goes to watch the football. We all go because we are good Presbyterians. Lets all stand and sing, Hello Hello we are the Presbyterian boys, surely UEFA will back us on this. Sorry Cammy if you think you are a good Presbyterian then fair enough, but don't tar all of the Rangers support with the same brush, and i hope you live by the docterine you are trying to teach otherwise it makes you a Hypocrit Acht well, thanks for picking up on one tiny point in the thread - I take it you agree with the rest tho.... Cammy F - Martin Luther Loyal RSC 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,133 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Sorry guys, there's nothing wrong with what cammy is saying... Rangers do have Protestant links and although not everyone needs to appreciate that there's nothing wrong with other parts of the support being proud of that assocation. As for ignoring what is said in the press - well the club have being doing that for too many years now and this is why certain media figures see us and our club as an easy target now. So ignorance simply isn't an option. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 2,494 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Acht well, thanks for picking up on one tiny point in the thread - I take it you agree with the rest tho.... Cammy F - Martin Luther Loyal RSC Funny enough i do agree with most of what you say but it does get on my chest at people saying they are good protestants or presbyterians when probably 99% do not have a clue what it means.( I am not saying you don't know.) I can screw 4 pieces of wood together it does not make me a joiner. When men say they are protestant or presbyterian it means nothing. Living with the values set by that religion makes you a good protestant or presbyterian. Most of the people who say they are good protestants probably think Martin Luther is a black rights demonstrator. How many know the history of the protestant church you seem to think we have to fight for? Most think it is about a dutch guy on a white horse crossing an Irish river. As i said that dosn't make them good protestants it makes them ignorent of the religion they claim to follow and a bunch of hypocrits. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CammyF 6,757 Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 Funny enough i do agree with most of what you say but it does get on my chest at people saying they are good protestants or presbyterians when probably 99% do not have a clue what it means.( I am not saying you don't know.) I can screw 4 pieces of wood together it does not make me a joiner. When men say they are protestant or presbyterian it means nothing. Living with the values set by that religion makes you a good protestant or presbyterian. Most of the people who say they are good protestants probably think Martin Luther is a black rights demonstrator. How many know the history of the protestant church you seem to think we have to fight for? Most think it is about a dutch guy on a white horse crossing an Irish river. As i said that dosn't make them good protestants it makes them ignorent of the religion they claim to follow and a bunch of hypocrits. Pete, this is deviating away from the purpose of the thread - As a club, Rangers have strong presbyterian roots, this can not be denied. We have held Orange Order and Boys Brigade conventions in our stadium, and IMO that is NOTHING to be ashamed off. If you re-read my oringinal post, I said that we can hold these traditions as we move forward. There is nothing stopping us acknowledging these traditions whilst becoming the all-inclusive club that we are. These are not mutually exclusive, they can go hand-in-hand. What we need to do is educate those fans who use their supposed 'presbyterianism' as an excuse to 'hate' others and other peoples religion / believes etc. I don't think any Rangers fan can deny that we must do something to regain a 'positive' public image as we are wrongly being demonized. I put my arguements forward, they are far from perfect, but no one has put any alternate thoughts / process / actions etc. One thing we can't do is continue to sit back and do nothing. Cammy F 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Funny enough i do agree with most of what you say but it does get on my chest at people saying they are good protestants or presbyterians when probably 99% do not have a clue what it means.( I am not saying you don't know.) I can screw 4 pieces of wood together it does not make me a joiner. When men say they are protestant or presbyterian it means nothing. Living with the values set by that religion makes you a good protestant or presbyterian. Most of the people who say they are good protestants probably think Martin Luther is a black rights demonstrator. How many know the history of the protestant church you seem to think we have to fight for? Most think it is about a dutch guy on a white horse crossing an Irish river. As i said that dosn't make them good protestants it makes them ignorent of the religion they claim to follow and a bunch of hypocrits. I agree with you Pete. There are far too many plastic prods at Ibrox whose behaviour in the name of the church would, I presume, be very embarrassing for the Kirk. Why would we want to encourage the blasphemous behaviour that seems to have it's roots at Ibrox? I would assume the real presbyterians would far rather show their devotion to Christ and God in a church on Sunday, rather than be surrounded by the disingenuous and negative songs and chants coming from the Ibrox stands. If there are some lapsed religious people at Ibrox, maybe the removal of this aspect will actually encourage them back to church instead of Ibrox to celebrate their religion... (they can then go to Ibrox to watch football instead). There they can be taught about being good people by learned men rather than possibly learn from some uber-pseudo-prod, loud mouthed alpha male about how to spew hate at fenians (meaning catholics) and the pope. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CammyF 6,757 Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 Still we have plenty of criticsism, but no alternantives. Surely we aren't happy at the current public image of our club? Surely we all have ideas of how this can be changed? If not, frankly, we deserve everything we get. Cammy F 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falkirk Jim 0 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 I think we need to balance between our past and our future. We have to look at how the club was formed, have pride in certain things but admit some of the mistakes we have made I don't object to looking at our past, as long as we look to the future too and realise that we need to be much more inclusive and put a lot of the old stuff where it belongs .... in history! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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