Tannochsidebear

Can anyone confirm if MB played any competitive games for Charlton in 2008-09. If he did, he cannot be sold in January 2009 under the three teams in one season rule.

If he didn't play for them he is in the same boat as every other Rangers player come January, if a decent fee comes in they are off. We need to balance the books and our chairman has proven over the last two/three years that this takes precedence over squad strength.

He is by far the better keeper who is just going through a bit of a form loss just now.

I dont rate Alexander as highly and thought some of the goals we lost at the end of last season were poor keeping.

Call me old fashioned but I would prefer to have the best keeper on our books in the first team on a regular basis.

The defending for the goals the other night was a shambles. Watch again at the second goal as MB stands and stares as Sandaza runs past him to slot in the tap-in. Players make mistakes, keepers mistakes are highlighted more. You cannot chop and change every time a player makes a mistake or you ruin the confidence of the whole squad.

He has looked decent so far, but was awful against United this week.

I hope we can write that one off as a blip as the defending post-Kaunas to date has been good and MB has been a big part of that.

I read the article in FF reviewing the book and I have already asked for it for my Xmas from my son, it looks a great read and full of the history of our club.

I was there when he said it and it there was no doubt he said we would be debt-free. The only disclaimer he put on it, was when he said it was dependant on allt he things he was working on coming to fruition and he said he was certain that they would happen. There was no later retraction or amendment. As usual he says things in the hope we will all forget them when they dont come off.

It was a ridiculous statement to make and we was not even under any pressure to make it, he just could not help himself such is the contempt he holds us in.

I will accept your point (well constructed and argued ) that financially the JJB deal looks better than we could have done ourselves, however I would say the difference is negligable given the loss of profile and availability of products. In 2007-08 we could have made a lot more, but we would not have made anything like it in 2006-07, or 2008-09 unless JJB are bust by then.

These accounts seem to suggest that we need to do it every year. 2006 and 2008 show small profits which come nowhere near meeting the loss in non-CL seasons eg 2007. bain's comments don't seem to stack up against the evidence, although perhaps he was looking at budggets that have been subsequently superseded by the large and expensive player purchases.

 

It's incorrect to look at just a figure of �£3m. You also need to take account of the �£18m that we got upfront (�£1.45m per year after expenses plus the interest savings on that sum (arguably +�£600K), so you really should be asking if we would have made over �£5m.

 

It's impossible to say, but I would say that the financial benefits of the JJB deal in other years would outweigh any potential gain that we may have received last season.

I think at the time those comments were made our wage bill was significantly lower (as was squad size) than it is now. Of course AMcL and PLG were allowed a core of experienced earners and had to make up the squad with kids, not now with Walter's super-sized squad of �£2M players. I agree that it would appear that we need CL every year to balance the books, or to significantly reduce the wage bill again.

I accept your point about the upfront payment from JJB that I had forgotten about, but not the amount as there was a large chunk of that used to close the shops, pay off staff and leases etc, so not all of it was profit, and then divided by the 10 years it amounts to not an awful lot, IMO. I will need to take a look back to the Nick Peel years accounts when our merchandising income and profits were second in the UK only to Man Utd to see a comparable level to now.

There is no point in comparing the season before JJB to after it as it was clear we were downsizing for a couple of years to set up this deal as palatable, when the only real reason for it was the large up front payment to reduce debt as DM had promised to be "debt-free within 12 months" (another lie!)

Agreed, I regularly recount what Bain told top sponsors and advertisers at a club function a year or so ago, that we have to play CL group football in 3 out of every 5 seasons just to break even. No transfers taken into account, just club running costs.

Scary stuff indeed, and is the reaping of the sell-offs of income streams in recent years.

Can anyone tell me that had we been in charge of our own merchandise, given our run to the UEFA final, that we would not have made a profit of over �£3M last season? In the weekend before Manchester, our one and only Rangers shop, at the ground, was selling ONE scabby looking t-shirt with a picture of the COM stadium on it, whilst outside the queue was long and deep with bears buying various t-shirts, scarves and flags off the vendors on Edmiston Drive.

Will it be this January the DM supporters finally wake up, or do we have to wait another few years of mis-management?

31st January 1987. :Shudder:

I knew someone would bring that up, and wait for the press to have 8 page pullouts in the run up to the game!!

Excellant analysis.

The debt is the one thing I am worried about, and I argued with other bears about on other forums who told me the debt would be reduced to almost zero from last year's "success".

It guarantees me only one thing. There will be a fire sale in January 2009, with nobody coming in for a fee and anybody being sold that a decent bid comes in for.

Look out for Murray spin in late December about the global credit crash and our Euro exit making things difficult, when it is really just another year of complete and utter mis-management from the top 2. And another year, and another..........

I thought Davis was putting better crosses in than we had last season from the several players who had a go, but last night's were poor in keeping with the general performance.

I agree with most posters here in wondering why, given our facilities, things have not improved.

We will now play Accies twice in a week. I read they are playing good passing football and this should be a good couple of games to watch.

As long as we win them both of course!

Seems to me that throughout history and round the world there are many male garments that are not trousers.

 

Clothes are after all just garments to cover the body and are almost arbitrarily gender assigned.

 

The kilt is obviously gender assigned to men and I find it strange that you think anything that does not agree with the recent Western convention of men wearing trousers, as feminine.

 

I think it's obvious you have issues when you are afraid of male attire because you think it could be mistaken for women's clothing even when few knowledgeable people would make that mistake. And I doubt many blokes who enjoy dressing as a woman would choose to wear a kilt to fulfil their fantasies.

 

Perhaps you need to relax and find more confidence in your own masculinity - and Scottishness...

 

You seem to be trying far too hard to show how you are more Scottish and more manly than everyone else.

I can assure you that anyone who knows me knows that I care not a jot how Scottish or manly I am perceived. I am merely having a light-hearted debate on patriotism and the man-skirt is just an annoying aside.

Chill out please, and I will do likewise. I think the skirt looks girly, and I am not afraid to say it. It has nothing to do with my masculinity, I think it looks bad, thats all. I wouldn't wear it, but happily accept the right of those who wish to do so. I am in fact going to a family wedding this saturday where the man-skirt will be in full attendance, but not me or a couple of others who dont like them.

BTW I think blokes who mock the kilt and call it a "skirt" always seem to me like they have some issues. It comes across like they were forced to wear skirts and dresses as a child or something...

It couldn't be just because IT IS a skirt, could it?

I have always thought blokes who stick up for the skirt to have issues, like they really want to dress up in skirts and dresses, and maybe not just as a child....

A great array of responses since my last post in this thread.

I got the exact response I thought I would from the ex-pats, that it doesn't matter how long they have been away or why they decided to move away, they are all still patriotic Scots.

Well sorry guys, but that just will not wash with us who pay our way in this country. Remembering that the definition of Patriotic is loyalty, where is the loyalty in buggering off to avoid paying your taxes?

As I said before I can understand the old "absence makes the heart grow fonder" line and I would definately concede that I am probably too close to appreciate all the finer points of Scotland as I was born, raised and educated, and have always lived and worked here, but I can certainly claim to be a more patriotic Scot because I choose to live here and pay my taxes and try to make a difference here.

You are not contributing anything to your country by staying away and out of the tax system, and that again is a valid and completely defendable point.

I understand that you feel proud of your roots, and actively retain a sense of Scottishness instead of integrating to the country of your residence, but that is just being proud of your family origin, not your country.

If it wasn't for the Rangers, would you even bother with this country at all, now that you have settled into another way of life in another culture?

I regularly go off for the weekend or a day trip to see more of our beautiful country and contribute to the local economy of these locations, and therefore I get to believe that we have something special here, and reinforces my desire to stay loyal to and patriotic about my country. The Wallace monument, Loch Lomond shores, the Ayrshire coastal towns, the beautiful Stirlingshire hills and small towns, the lovely Aviemore resort and surrounding area, the Stonehaven fireballs at new year, all fantastic uniquely Scottish places of interest that are lost to you all to save a few quid in tax.

As proud of Scotland and its heritage and history and achievements as I am, I'm sure you are, but patriotic about Scotland, no chance!!

Are STV really so desperate for hits on its website to generate advertising income that it employs people to go posting on football fans messageboards with wee clips of football realted stories?

It must be in bigger trouble than we thought.

Perhaps some unbiased sports reporting these last few years would have been a better way to generate interest from Rangers fans?

Without having read the full thread (so apologies in advance) but can you tell me just why being an ex-pat means you can not be as patriotic as someone who lives in the uk ?

 

Define patriotic for me - patriotic to who ? UK or Scotland or both ?

 

I resent that you can assume that by being ex-pats we are less patriotic (if that is what is being suggested - again, on blackberry and haven't read the full thread).

 

I am staunchly Scottish and British, always have been but does that mean that I have to suffer shitty weather, high taxes, ineffective government, poor public services ?

 

Does it make me less patriotic because I choose to live abroad ?

 

Living abroad does not necessarily mean that people have a distaste for their country, there are a multitude of reasons that people leave the UK and it doesn't have to mean that they are not patriotic.

 

I look forward to your enlightenment because, for the life of me, I just don't see the connection.

Very interesting point of view Craig.

I suppose patriotism means different things to different people. What is your definition? The dictionary would suggest it is a love of and loyalty to a country.

I can see how you can fondly remember mostly the good things about your country if you leave it behind, and promote them to new friends and colleagues in the country you choose to reside in. But that is not patriotism any more than sticking up for a particular bank, or brand of trainers, or football club.

I dont see how it can be patriotic to leave your country behind because of tax and bad weather. I would go so far as to say that if you choose to leave the country to pursue your own interests, you cannot claim to be patriotic to that country as you have chosen to leave it behind.

What is it about Scotland that you are patriotic about?

Not having a go at your personal choices to go and live in Bermuda instead of Barmulloch, but surely you cannot have it all ways?

Some of those replies he got were cringingly funny from the scum.

He doesnt miss them when he replies to them though!!

As much as I like Thomson and Davis, a fully fit Ferguson is miles ahead of either of them.

I havent seen enough of Edu or Mendes to compare but I would be amazed if anyone has the array of qualities Ferguson has, never mind his leadership skills.

Ferguson can now look forward to coming back into a midfield full of proper midfield players, not defenders and forward trying to play midfield. He now does not need to worry about covering for everyone else and can concentrate on his own game. We will see the benefit of this when he returns.

its the reason why the whole world abandoned them - they're musically crippled.

 

to me someone who talks about patriotism while essentially being an ex-pat is more contradictory than one who dislike kilts and other fashion trends and musical tastes.

 

everyone chooses the bits of their history that they see as their tradtions - some people with the Romantic revival tastes of the early 1800s sentamentalise kilts and tartan; others see the Reformation and cultural freedom; others again choose our scientific tradition or whatever.

 

bagpipes are whiney and horrible. kilts are occasionally tolerable but otherwise tacky (rangers tartan & weddings excluded). see you jimmy hats and all that are just embaressing. they're not the parts of scottish history and tastes everyone must be proud of i dont think.

 

i know its harmless fun, but you cant turn it into a symbol to judge other people's patriotism by. just my opinion.

Your opinion is of course an accurate one

Perhaps his abrasive style would have got the best out of prima-donnas like Faddy.

We will never know, I just got the feeling that they didn't want 3 ex-Rangers managers in a row and therefore chose Burley for the wrong reasons.

Levein (Ibrox match last May aside) looks like he can be a good manager but needs to get United into top 4 consistently for that. Same goes for McGhee. The both certainly know their stuff and would be respected.

Very good.

It starts Friday with a smile.

He's been carrying it for a while apparently mate.

Hadn't heard that. Cheers Frankie. Hope it is nothing too bad and he can get back soon. At least we have some cover these days, can you imagine if he was not available for the Falkirk game:eek:

Gribz,

You are taking this far too seriously.

I wrote a fairly light-hearted rant about why I dont like celtic players in the scotland team, and I find it hard supporting them.

Just because I am scottish doesnt mean that I have to love everything Scottish. How ridiculous is that. That is as bad as a communist state. I am allowed freedom of thought and speech. The bagpipes are a truly awful sounding dirge, as is FOS that only got promoted to unofficial national anthem on political grounds by anti-english sentiment. Kilts as well. Man-skirts look stupid IMO and I am allowed to think it and say it.

I have readily admitted it is shallow-minded to not be able to rise above my petty club differences and support Mcthug and co when they wear the Scotland shirt. Although the way that particular idiot shamed the shirt and the armband last night, he surely should not have too many more caps coming his way anyway as he has proven yet again to be out of his depth at that level. I wont hold my breath on that one as I am sure his friends in the mhedia have already swept it away as unlucky or such like.

As for Burley, I was reminded last night that Souness was actually interviewed for the job when Burley got it, and it makes it all the more ridiculous that Burley got it ahead of someone with vast, successful managerial and European experience. Baffling indeed.

I seen bits of the match last night and I was delighted for Broadfoot to get the goal and I was also delighted that McFadden beat Robson to the ball for the second goal, despite the scumbag trying to claim it. I see he is learning fast at the piggery. I laughed and was astonished at the sheer stupidity of McManus getting himself sent off and was not in the elast surprised that he chased the ref around the park in an intimidatory attempt to get him to change his mind and pleading that he was pushed. Embarressing. And to think Burley picked him not only for the team but as captain of the National side. Can there ever have been a Scottish international captain with less footballing ability?

What I am really saying is you dont have to love everything Scottish to be proud to be Scottish. But I do love living here and working here and I would never dream of moving away. That says a lot more than laughing at a bad football result.

I suppose I have to concede that if grown men will insist in wearing a skirt, at least it is a skirt in Rangers colours

I said I don't mind them, not the same as liking them

 

But TBO they don't really bother me one way or another. I wore a Rangers tartan kilt at my wedding that's about it I must admit, and there was no bagpipes there

I'll let you off seeing as there were no bagpipes:cheers: