maineflyer

And rightly so. The idea of using our donations to pay off creditors is ridiculous. I donated to keep my club's head above water, not to help creditors survive.

Shit stirring is accepting payment for red and black scarves, sitting on the money for as long as possible while claiming unforeseeable delays, then delivering the goods at the last possible moment. Jaffa cake anyone?

Dingwall's mouthpiece? Bullseye! You got that right.

I see the difference you're hinting at - the RFFF can't be used to further the personal aspirations of the clique running RST/FF.

I think you mean one is about talking the talk and the other is a little more difficult for some.

That's appalling cynicism.

Is it safe to assume everyone who was rushing to pledge the other week is now making the same actual contribution to the Fighting Fund? I mean, why wouldn't they?

Oh well, if you're not alone then that changes everything.

It's always amusing to see someone get it so spectacularly wrong. After banging on about supporter unity for so long, you must be disappointed not to have recognised it when it came along.

You got that right and every Rangers fan should be delighted to see the back of Dingwall's pledging nonsense. It was depressing to see so many still being duped by the jaffa eater, you'd think even the most gullible would eventually cotton on to these scams.

Amazed people are still trotting out the "well, we'll go to England instead" bullshit. Why not the Spanish, Dutch or German leagues? Why not fly to the moon every week? Why not get a fucking grip on reality?

Dry your eyes ffs. McBride isn't some anonymous name in the news. He earned the reactions you so piously condemn by doing everything he could to damage and discredit everyone connected to Rangers. It's not personal, few if any of us knew him on that basis, it's in direct response to his conduct towards us and his role wrt the anti-Rangers campaign. Wh the fck are you to sit as judge over the reaction of others.

I'd add to previous comments that I find it utterly intolerable that an organisation representing a few hundred members can try to take centre stage in discussions about the use of £millions pledged by genuinely concerned supporters. This is one of the things that really does need to stop if the future is to be better than the past. The ONLY possible way forward for supporter representation is to create ONE completely NEW organisation, with all existing orgs (RSA/RST) dissolving and no officer or board member of existing orgs being able to be on the initial board of the new org. I saw someone suggest a Rangers Supporters Union, it sounded appropriate to me.

My own alternative would be to do nothing until there is an unambiguous and immediate objective that clearly helps establish a stable future for the club. Until the overall recovery strategy is known, it is disingenuous to ask fans to support it. However, if the idea is to provide funds to help the club through administration, first accept this may be like opening the widow and throwing your roll of oncers in a bottomless pit. But if that is indeed the objective then I'd talk directly to the administrators and agree a transparent plan that money donated by supporters would be used for specific and pre-agreed purposes only, with this being confirmed in the management accounts. If the aim is to build a war chest for use in some future recovery package then I would first want to see a detailed plan defining the purpose and limits of that use. I would want to be 100% clear who had control over those funds. People must know exactly what their money is to be used for before any request is made for donations. Pledges I would avoid like the plague. They are always superficial, generally meaningless and open to misinterpretation, which is no doubt why they are the method of choice of the malignant RST. The SaveRangers scheme intended is to give credence to fan ownership - not you and me owning the club but a tiny tinpot group like the RST exercising that ownership on our behalf without any accountability whatsoever. I support the concept of fans being involved but that should be with the club's support by share subscription and at the last time of asking the fans gave the idea a resounding thumbs down. We could do with a supporter rep on the Rangers board but that does not require £1 of our money, let alone £10m, to achieve it.

Good luck with that!

Absence of any other party .... other than who? Are you tacitly accepting that the purpose of the RST scheme is to support Paul Murray and thereby conceding that the RST proposal that it is to support Rangers is blatant propaganda? After the time and effort you've spend studying the Rangers disease I'm disinclined to believe you can't see exactly what's going on here. What I know for sure we can ill afford is to go through this pain and come out the other side in exactly the same situation. It's taken long enough to reach the bottom. Now that we're here I'll take whatever time is necessary or whatever bitter remedy is needed to make sure we address properly the problems that caused this.

Like so often with the Rangers support, we allow our energy to get drawn into schemes (scams?) like SaveRangers that are entirely political and sold on a practically false pretext. Then we spend endless time on forums that few ever read, debating and defending these pointless schemes. SaveRangers has nothing to do with saving Rangers. It is about building a bridge between the RST leadership and Paul Murray, ostensibly to provide RST with a seat at the table if and when Paul Murray is asked how much he can scrape together. A better way to save Rangers would be to have nothing to do with it. The pledges have nothing whatsoever to do with funding contributions to Rangers, either gratis or subscribing for shares. It may be a clever PR exercise for the RST and it may further the personal aspirations of Mark Dingwall but the day a penny from it drops into the Rangers bank account isn't part of the calculation.

Yet you just can't stop yourself taking the bait, like a moth to a flame Must be really depressing for you on a day when Craig Whyte comes up with more money than silly SaveRangers

Or to put it another way, "We haven't actually raised one penny yet, nor have we any idea what we'd do with that penny if it popped out of fatman's lucky jaffa cake tomorrow." Dream, delusion or nightmare?

Rather than fixate on the mechanics of running surveys, it might be more profitable to examine the point of it in the first place. When it comes to it, is there really any benefit to this contrived statistic, other than as a weapon for an already vested interest?

Is it agreeable? On what basis?

I'm privileged to be onside for a change. The scheme is fundamentally political and is about elevating the RST in the food chain after administration. It has little or nothing to do with gauging practical support for Rangers or for supporting fan ownership. Yet we apparently have 1000's of bears rushing to pledge in line with their emotional attachment to the club. It's exploitative and sums up for me the entire attitude of those who pretend to represent and speak for supporters. I find it hard to separate this from the attitude of recent owners and directors of the club. Is there no one able to see the obligation to treat fans with honesty and even a crumb of respect. Although some of the naivety on display makes you wonder if we haven't had more or less the leadership we actually deserve.

And you're happy this exercise in "market research" should be so ill-conceived as to virtually guarantee false data? Perhaps we're becoming immune to bullshit and just see this as part of the continuing Rangers experience?

How many of those now pledging do you suppose are Celtic fans? I've certainly had a few telling me how much charity they've committed to our future. Perhaps the great minds organising this pointless exercise had that in mind from the outset? So sad to see Rangers fans continuing to be so easily drawn into such absurd schemes.

Yes but ths isn't it.