rbr

Genuinely - is there a problem?

are you having a laugh , I sent you a pm appologising if I had overstepped the mark with a previous debate and what did you send back , seriously go back and read your message , even better post it , dont try and take any high ground with me after your reply

Don't worry moves are still afoot in the background to buy the club.

 

We can only hope this happens before January at a price that leaves enough flexibility for the new owner to ensure the club's fiscal status is positive before we get to season ticket sale time.

 

Frankie everyone believes talks are taking place , however this is Scotland if the deal isn't done yesterday everyone and their granny knows what's going on and before you know it reallity has left the building .

It's going to be a long two or three months and if this game of he who dares blink first takes a wrong turn it could end up very very sad for the support in general

I can assure you this is accurate , my mate works on the sports desk at the times ,though not a "Name" he assures me this is true

But who are they and where have they coming from , in the last few months on sites such as newsnow there have been stories and feeds appearing fro m everywhere , it's getting ridiculous .

There should be one fans voice/group and whether that is the assembly of the trust or who ever it needs sorted and soon it's starting to get silly

The problem is Frankie that here we have another fans group that we have never heard of , where are they all coming from . we are starting to sound like a sketch from" the life of brian " , people's front of judea , judean people's front , the popular front of judea , bloody splitters , this is getting ridiculous

I seriously doubt that's the case here rbr. This is Kris Boyd we're talking about.

Yeah , but this is the same guy that came back from injury early yet was being slaughtered as rumours were posted that he wanted for wanting the doc to give him a sick line as he had a hangover ( which was bullshit ) ,this was meant to be a wee bit of fun , I rate Boyd highly , unlike Lovenkrands and Burke ,

Also his attitude has changed, he really has gone up in my estimation, although I am a Boyd fan he has to be the most improved player in our squad,keep up the good work Mr Boyd

Mind you , that used to happen all the time previously when players contracts were due for renewal , Lovenkrands anyone or Burke

He's not just improved his game, he's improved himself. He must have been training a lot & watching his diet because he's slimmed down. Hopefully he'll keep it up & become the player we know he can be.

Maybe he and big Hately have had a love in and he is adopting his magic 5 minute training sequence that will turn him into a global superstar

This sounded like the cry of the truly desperate to me , we always used to do business behind closed doors , now everything is in the press and is getting increasingly frantic , the seasons under big eck were truly depressing and I thought a thing of the past but obviously not

These disciplinary's never hear from the fans involved , the UEFA guy at the game would not have seen first hand what started the rammy , christ the majority of the press that is slaughtering us weren't even in Romania , I really hope for the best , but fear the worst

there is going to have to come a time when he gets a chance in europe , and I dont mean half an hour or even a half , Miller gives you everything but goals we have spent enough over the last two years to have been able to construct a team to accomodate Boyd and Watties excuses really piss me off , we continually play players out of position yet we have a proven goalscorer who cannot get a game when we desperately need him .

Last point on this could we resally have done any worse with him in the team

Well I'm truly grateful for that informative analysis. It's good to be clear that my opinions are my opinions. Don't know what I might have thought they were if you hadn't stepped in to keep me right. Thanks for that.

well well we all know your opinions cannot be touched for you truly are the golden one , we are all unworthy of your greatness :flipa:

Thought I'd give you an opportunity to use some of that horde of quotations you collect just for occasions like this.

 

If I'd only known you treasured honest and truth on football forums, I might occasionally use them.

Listen Maineflyer your opinions are only your opinions , just because you utter them does not mean they are for ever sacred and set in stone , whatever the RST spokesman said is his opinion and one that many will agree with , you cannot base a defence on what Uneria's stewards did , that's up to UEFA to decide , just as we will get done on what the fans did , whether we agree or not the decision will be made and we will get done .

Our problem is we take massive amounts of fans to games in countries that are simply not set up for these sort of large fan movements , their police and stewards just cannot cope , there are very few clubs that have travelling supports such as ours , it also doesn't help when fans get bladdered on cheap beer for hours on end prior to kick off .

You know, I've almost never started a topic about the RST. I only usually respond to their various announcements, so any idea that I go around hounding them is nonsense.

Didn't take you long to change your tune Maineflyer eh !!

Coded message of backing for the message banners displayed yesterday perhaps?

very Ironic that he has discovered a backbone and recognises the fans can be an important part of the club , now that his master has gone :box::box:

You know, I've almost never started a topic about the RST. I only usually respond to their various announcements, so any idea that I go around hounding them is nonsense. If they ever actually changed anything for the better, I wouldn't be slow to congratulate them. However, neither am I inclined to hold back criticism when the same old self-promotion-based-on fukk-all is trotted out by people who are happy to accept the recognition afforded by the media but unprepared to addrss the root causes of many of our ills. I still have correspondence somewhere from the RST asking that we stop any overt criticism of Murray or club management because this would "Jeopardise the relationship between the Trust and the chairman of Rangers". Then I received a letter from the current chairman of the RST stating that the Trust would be adopting a much more "militant" approach to the Rangers board - "watch this space" he told me - and two years later I'm still waiting. I have many examples of where the Trust has let themselves and the support down badly.

 

Remember, I joined he RST as a member, then forked out 100 notes for a life membership, because I really believed this was the way to influence the decisions of the Rangers board. If I now appear to be frustrated with the RST then that's because I am. Grossly frustrated at the wasted opportunity. All you ever seem to get from the Trust are empty words, usually about the Trust itself.

 

So when people come on fans forums with the express purpose of saying they are to become members of the RST board, I think it's fair game to comment on it. I think it's fair to ask why they are joining and what aims and objectives they take with them. When they respond that they will need to wait and see what the existing bunch of failures want them to do, I already know it's a pointless exercise and I've little hesitation in saying so.

 

Similarly, when I hear the RST spokesman lying to a direct question from a radio interviewer about membership numbers, I get even more disappointed at the way the Trust has been hijacked and misdirected. Everyone knows the membership numbers are pathetic and we all know why this is the case, but the Trust just keeps on lying and deflecting the truth. I don't give a monkeys what the actual membership numbers are but I do care that the Trust cannot be openly honest about it and, even more importantly, cannot operate in such a way that attracts new members rather than driving away existing ones.

 

What is the point of continuing to support the RST board after years of failure, just because they're a bunch of "volunters" who "want a better Rangers". I'm sure they all want a better Rangers but if they're not the people who can deliver anything in that direction then they need to stop pretending they are. In my world, results are what count, not empty words.

 

I'm made it plain I'm a big believer in a Rangers Supporters Trust - but only one that actually works. That comes down to the people running it and we currently do not have the right people. That much is self-evident, not because I say so but because of what we can all see.

 

The only viable answer to supporter representation is to have a single elected body and the Supporters Trust is the ideal vehicle. But it need to be democratic in more than just intent. How many of the current board have been co-opted rather than elected? Too many. How many of the current board have been elected by more than a handful of votes? Too few. That's why a healthy membership is absolutely vital in ensuring the RST does not become a comfort club for an elite and self-sustaining few. The wasted opportunity here is collossal and it's all because two or three individuals have decided they will run the Trust and they will not be accountable. Why are objectives not published, reported against and used as benchmarks to judge effectiveness - like any other business. Why not - you know the answer. Why has the relationship between senior Trust board members and David Murray been allowed to dictate Trust activity (I nearly said Trust policy but that would have been insincere, we don'y have one)? It's not the ordinary fans who are most culpable when it comes to swalling the shit dished up by Murray - there are others who have acted in a far more "pathetic" manner.

 

It took fans, including many of the regular posters on Gersnet, a long time to accept that Murray wasn't some kind of benign God. It seems to be taking the same people even longer to acknowledge that some of our "representatives" have been either complicit or compliant in the mismanagement of Rangers. Eventually we'll all get there, some just taking longer than others.

I must firstly appologise maineflyer , having posted for many years on FF it is almost second nature to get your retaliation in early as they say , you speak with great clarity and passion and to be fair I wouldn't disagree with much of what you wrote , however we are where we are and if fans groups can get together for the greater good then surely we can show a bit of good will towards people who also have the clubs best will at heart , David Edgar like him or not can never be portrayed as a self important attention seeker , no one would volunteer themselves for his role out of self interest and also he has done a sterling job of defending the club and trying to move the debate on.

I cannot say the same for the rest of the RST board , as I have only been to a couple of Agm's they do as you say co-opt many appointees and I also agree that certain members may have their own self interests at heart , however in this time of need I would be saddened if these interests were put ahead of the clubs .

Anyway I think you have probably won this particular arguement so I am saying no more other than to hope all those who are postureing behind the scenes , whether they be Dave King , Douglas Park or whoever get their fingers out for the sake of our club

I don't believe any of it is drivel but no one forces you either to read these posts or to reply to them, so please don't think you have to be bore by them. However, if you want to take part, how about you tell me where I'm going wrong. Tell me what the RST has actually achieved these last couple of years, make a list. Achieved mind you, not just the usual claimed or talked about. While you're at it, explain to me why the RST is only now urging banks to be petitioned and fans to unite. Where has this zeal been since they declared two years ago their determination to be more "militant"? Convince me with evidence that the RST isn't just a pointless, toothless talking shop, where posturing takes the place of achievement.

 

While we're on the subject of drivel, one of the posters on this thread has made it his business to post what amounts to little more than RST propaganda on this and other sites, all on the back of his recent unelected elevation to the sacred Trust. We've been assailed with diatribe about collective decision making and received lessons on the sematic difference between aims and objectives but so far neither one nor the other has actually emerged so that we might judge whether these are actually achieved. That's drivel but you must have missed it.

We will never agree with regards the RST so there is very little point debating it ,as for this list you want again there is no point for you would definetly win as there has been very little achieved as such , but that depends on what your definition of achievement is , when you consider the RST is fighting not only Murray but his media poodles and that the majority of our fans are unable to even think for themselves anymore then you can see what they are up against .

Remember this is just a voluntary fans organisation that is trying for a better Rangers , as far as I am concerned the continual beratement of Murray , the "We Deserve Better " campaign even though it was rubbished by the press is an achievement as is encourages debate and at this time that can only be a good thing , for far too long we have been run in an atrocious manner even thoug the press would have you believe Murray is god , even Derek Johnstone last week stated that Rangers had not won anything for a few years before Murray took over and were going nowhere , well David Holmes and Graeme Souness may have a thing to say about that .

So we will have to agree to disagree however I refuse to slaughter anyone for wanting a better Rangers , you obviously disagree and you have your own opinions on the Rst and I take it also the Assembly who are also unelected and club financed . So just where do the fans go in your opinion , who should speak for them as I have never seen such a pathetic bunch of supporters in my 34 years of supporting this once great club , you know maybe we dont deserve better , maybe we deserve exactly what we have got and that isn't much .

Remember opinions are like arseholes , we all have one !!!

There's no doubt in my mind that the RST has struggled to achieve anything these last couple of years - anything. It has openly lied to promote its own importance and it has shown little appetite for representing anyone, continuing as it does to avoid relevant questions.

 

No we have a club in the crisis that was predicted as early as the late 1990's by several people who are now being criticised for being anti-RST...... and what has the RST been doing all these years to confront the causes of our decline into farce ....... squat. While they should have adopted an assertive policy of confrontation, they instead courted a chairman who played them like a fiddle, hoping that ingratiating themselves would somehow represent the interest of fans who genuinely feared their club was heading for the rocks.

 

Now, at the latest crisis, here we have the RST posturing in yet another act of self-promotion, not only re-hashing old news but now apparently claiming virtue in raking over other people's words.

 

Here's some worthwhile advice. If the RST wants to recover any credibility at all, it should only speak when it actually has something of its own to say. The RST has more than earned the criticism it gets. When it changes the way it acts and stops courting cheap praise then it will get a different reception. It's always the same with the RST, empty words and eff all action.

Sorry Maineflyer but what ou have posted is utter drivel totally unworthy of your usual standard , you have a very personnal grudge against not only the RST but certain individual's inside the RST , why I dont know and am not really interested in but please give it a break your starting to get very predictable and boring

Shroomz , Murray deserves every bit of the critiscism he is recieving , the way this great club has been run for over 20 years is a disgrace , the first 10 when we had no real competition should have had us with a scouting network and youth set up second to none ,

What makes it even worse is that Murray started from a position of strength , with International captains in the squad an already purpose built stadium and 50,000 every week to watch them .

Yet here we are 21 year later , broke and almost destitute , hoping that some rich supporter will ride to the rescue , all the time Murray does his usual vanishing trick in case he get's a wee bit of abuse .

As for Walter Smith I will never critiscise his love or his role in our history the past week has shown how much he cares about this once great institution , however on football matters he is not above critiscism , that goes with the territory unfortunately

To be fair there are only so many people that can be "in the know " so to speak , and everyone and their granny is now coming on internet forum boards stating , " well I knew about this months ago " . Utter Pish .

For once all the various groups , and there are far too many , are trying to get the message out to the fans in general and it shouldn't matter whether it is the RST or the Assembly the point is the truth needs to get out . There is far too much dis-informantion and false rumours flying about at the moment and what is very apparent is that the main players in all of this whether it be Dave King or Lloyds are attempting to play their hand via the media and via management , the reality is only time will tell what the future holds

aQUOTE=maineflyer;174959]Two comments on the OP. All of you know I wouldn't post this unless I knew it to be true.

1. All of this was known before any petitions appeared or threats were made to close accounts. The bank wants its �£30m and will either get it by selling the club or by selling players and then the club.

2. Why is this great announcement reserved only for members of FF? Does the RST have a special relationship with that website?:rolleyes:

Very very unfair comments maineflyer again you seem to have a massive chip about the RST , the same details were posted by contacts on this very site and bt Barrybaldy on Rangers Media both very reputable posters with no stain on their reputations for posting very reliable info .

We have both agreed that this is a massive he who dares blink first loses game and by the look of an article on surprise surprise the times on line it is the banks turn to fight back , but it does you no favours continually trying to win cheap points against the RST , as it does me probably no favours continually defending them

Their AGM was today so I'd imagine their accounts will also be available soonest (or already)...

That was what was annoying me , so far there has not been any mention of their financials ????

Did I miss something here , why or when did they announce there figures for this year , sorry if this is an obvious question

I think this idea comes from believing Celtic make money from their "global brand". Outwith Man, Real and maybe a couple others, I don't think there is much of a market for it tbh.

This global brand issue was put to bed last week . Man Utd posted in their results that in season 07/08 they made over �£104 million from Match day income , which included tickets sales , TV revenue , catering and merchandise , the very surprising item was sale from overseas merchandise which was �£3.4 million , now that is hardly a fortune in anyones book .

As you say, "oh the irony".

 

I labelled the RST as silly because it seems entirely appropriate. It is silly. But if you doubt it then how about sharing all this "change" you think the RST has driven. I'd love to hear about it. Are you meaning the regular change of board members and the drift towards ever-greater unpopularity and lower membership. Some achievement.

 

So many Rangers fans have spent so many years backing failure in the shape of David Murray. But we've also backed failure in the shape of our supporters organisations - not one of them has actually achieved anything worth the mention. Why is it so many among us are uncomfortable with criticism of these groups? Why are3 we prepared to lower our ambitions and settle for so little? As I said in the OP, we need to change this outlook every bit as much as we expect change in the boardroom.

Again I am not disagreeing with your whole aim in this thread , and I was as much as you was very disappointed at the treatment dished out to the previous board of the RST , but and this is my main point they have always tried more than any other supporters group to stand up for the fans , either after manchester or through the " We Deserve Better " at least they made the effort and tried for a better Rangers .

I do fully agree with you about the apathy that is Rangers fans , at times I really cannot believe what we settle for, that is why we must change , especially now when there is at least a chink of light that change is in the air ....