rbr

I'm not knocking our identity as a football club, but in terms of fans we're small in number compared to Barcelona & that was my point. If the Barcelona model was the way forward for football, why haven't hundreds of other clubs gone down that path? The fact of the matter is that Barca are quite unique & that very few other big clubs in Europe would even consider their model as a safe bet for themselves. I say 'safe' because big clubs need security & at the end of the day, the security of Barcelona FC is provided by the lucrative broadcasting rights, not by the fans!!

Shroomz , I agree we do not have the TV revenue to underpin this , however if we did have the TV deal then we wouldn't be in this mess , also the reason that other teams acros europe do not follow this model is that they do not have the fans that we do worldwide , something radical must be done to address this continual boom and bust that we go through , if you look south at the EPL the total debt is sitting at �£3.2 Billion and this is at a time when they have never had it so good.

Liverpool have a 1 year licence from the EPL to play football as they are technically insolvent due to the debt , that was discussed last week on talksport and is no secret in England , and as many as 7 others teams are on the verge of finacial ruin . We do not want to go down that route and if we dont get a SugarDady who is worth Billions I fear we will just be going down this route again in a few years .

I don't understand why you can say that 'the Barcelona setup should be the template for any modern football club' with any degree of certainty rbr. I'm not saying that it wouldn't or couldn't work, but Barcelona is significantly bigger than Glasgow & Spain probably has a population ten times larger than Scotland. If you also take into account that Barca's support not only comes from all over Catalan, but from Spanish people all over the world, then what you end up with is little & large, us being little. Again, I'm not saying it couldn't work, but I'm definitely skeptical.

At this moment Rangers fans not just in Scotland but all over the world are worrying and discussing our future , Dave King if the press and respected posters are to be believed is the favoured saviour , a guy who stays in S A and has major contacts there , our Chairman is a Director of IMG a global management company , we have supporters groups all over the world , and as for Barcelona and it's population then I agree however it is not universal in Spain , just ask any Madrista.

We do not have the finances that other major clubs have , we cannot keep Knocking our potential and our appeal , we are a global brand we are GLASGOW RANGERS and we deserve better .

The Barcelona setup should be the template for any modern football club , with a membership and voting rights , all senior Directors should be made available for voting in/out and all should have a vision of where our club and how our club would get there .

Of course their should be a membershp fee for the right to vote and take part in any club election . This would also deal with the apathy issue , I have e-mailed this idea to Bain on several occasions never having recieved a reply

Maineflyer we have agreed and disagreed over a few things lately and again I possibly agree with your arguement about the support changing , but why label the RST as " silly " they more than anyone have driven the change , going back to the origins and Frankie may or may not agree with this , the trust have swam amongst a tide of apathy , trying to get a better Rangers and a better future for all of us who support this fantastic institution , please do not belittle their attempts or their aims . They have never tried to better theirselves individually , they have never tried to gain favour of the support , in fact their criticism of the club have made many figures of hate , the gerssave has never takenoff , partly as a backfire against the trust , ohh the irony .

The bottom line and many Rangers fans cannot stomach this , is we are apathetic, we will not fight for our club and await a white knght to ride to save us , and then we will start shouting from the stands as per usual .

This is an opportunity to unify a support , unfortunately the support is waiting for someone to sort it out for them ......

Now Now sir , that's a wee bit of a cheap shot dont you think

No, I think it's been exactly the situation for many years. Murray always preferred people who needed to be told what line to take. Every independent view was systematically expunged from Ibrox until no one was questioning anything. It's a bit too optimistic for me to believe Walter Smith is anything but Murray's man.

Maineflyer you may be right in your assertion of what happened previously , however considering Murray's achillies heel of personnal critiscism it is not totally unexpected for him to expect total loyalty from his staff and Smith does believe that he owes Murray a great deal for giving him his chance and backing him with the hard cash during NIAR.

That should not preclude Wattie from being an excellent chairman , he has a very good rapour with the media the vast majority stay very much on his good side , also he is not a stupid man and is steeped in the club and what it stands for , he has never been in a position to defend us with any real power so that should not be held against him and pointed very much at Murray and to a lesser extent Bain , a man who really suffers from the Murray effect .

TE=maineflyer;174627]But if Walter was chairman, who would tell him what to think?

Now Now sir , that's a wee bit of a cheap shot dont you think

I think you make really good points rbr, the main one being that everyone is dancing round everyone else right now and no one is showing their cards. However, the bank want a deal to be done, the prospective buyers want a deal to be done, and Murray wants to sell. Only the numbers have to be agreed and it's only to be expected that everyone will be blowing smoke up everyone else's arse until it becomes plain who needs what more than everyone else. It will resolve itself but time is also part of the equation and one that sometimes cannot easily be discarded.

 

As for Walter and his statements, don't you think there is just a slim chance that he's still saying exactly what Murray is asking him to say?

Or Dave King , I would love to see Walter as Chairman , I believe he would not allow the press the scope thay have had previously , interesting times , one thing is certain there are a damn site more money men about than there were a few weeks ago

With respect, you don't actually know the bank is playing hard ball or any other kind of ball.

Quite possibly but I know who I believe and it certainly aint the bank ,very well respected posters who have in the past been spot on with thier info are all saying the same thing , and whatever you may believe about Smith he isn't a liar .

Now whether this is a premeditated plan to put pressure on the bank to play along is another story , just remember back to when Septic were saved the tricks and manipulation used by the Rebels and their media puppets to ensure the deal was done , the very same could be playing out in front of us here .

Why would any possible investor pay �£1 per �£1 of debt when he may be able to get it for 40 , or 50 or 60p in the pound , likewise the banks are hardly going to give the debt away knowing that there is a buyer out there who has obviously done a deal with Murray , that much is very obvious , this is a who blinks first situation , and that's why I believe Smith brought this out into the open.

boss is there any way the messages can be removed as it is infested with ****s just now , and some are pretty stupid , bordering on offensive

Actually, I'm delighted to see the bank in the boardroom, it's time someone made something happen to move this club forward. The problem isn't the bank, the problem has been with us for many years and it's called David Murray. It may be uncomfortable, it may even be threatening but if the bank in the Rangers boardroom rids us of a deceitful owner then I'd transfer my accounts to Lloyds rather than away from them.

 

I won't be signing any petitions against the bank because if it wasn't for Lloyds Bank, we would likely remain mired in this mess while Sir Murray indulged himself at the club's expense. What Lloyds are trying to do is effect change in face of a totally intransigent and endlessly conceited owner. I hope they succeed.

 

Personally, I'd rather face the challenge ahead than wallow in the shite we're standing in.

Though I do agree with this , at the same time there is no reason for them to play hard ball or put spokes in any deals when they are not treating our club/business as they are treating others . I just hope it is concluded quickly and without too much mud slinging

signed also

Have closed all my lloyds accounts and given the reason why , probably wont make any difference but if there is a fans backlash you never know. It is very apparent that there is a stand off between the bank and potential new owners

Dont know if this has anything to do with it , but they were working on the site , they were replacing or upgrading the RAM , they had announced there would be downtime tonight

The end game is upon us , hopefully this will all be done and dusted very quickly then we can get back to being a football club again

If as is being suggested Dave King is actually in negotiations with Lloyds then what we are seeing is political posturing and pressure being applied on Lloyds , and if again as is being suggested they are not for reducing their price re-the debt then this is a who blinks first game .

the one thing that is apparent is that Murray is basically out the picture totally , either because he has agreed a price with King or else he has waived his shareholding as is being suggested in the evening times

So according to the article, you pay off the debt of �£30m and own the club...so for your �£30m, you get the stadium, Murray Park and the players etc, and a debt free company. Seems like a good deal to me.

I think that , that will be after agreement with Murray is reached on the sale price of his shares , the Debt is a seperate issue and from what I can gather it is the wrangling between King and LLoyds that is holding up any sale

And how bad may it really get if we dont win the league this year before our coeficcient drops and we have one team in the qualifiers

Nothing because we have an apathetic support who believe that the club will never be allowed to fold , or even better there is a big secret millionaire about to save us , both bollocks we are in a shit state and no one is coming to the rescue

Bluedell the majority are clinging on to hope like a limpet , the majority cannot comprehend how bad this situation actually is , believing that Rangers will never be allowed to fold never mind fall , the reality is no one Know's, only after Murray is purged and the money trail is investigated will the truth actually come out for the money is the story , this is the worst I have ever felt as a fan in over 30 years not even rotten teams compare to this , we truly are at a crossroads

Andy in some strange way you actually hit a very raw nerve , many many fans in fact the majority myself included always believed that Rangers Fc would never be allowed to get in this position never mind possibly go into administration .

However is this actually in this resetion hit times a reality , does the money trail that is MIH actually mean we are in danger and if so does anyone outwith the Rangers support actually give a four X , we always heard that the Rangers support would never let it happen well reality is here and we have let it happen will the apathy that prevaides throughout us actually mean we will do nothing .

Today in Liverpool there was meant to be a march of approx 10,000 fans against the owners , not the manager or the players but the owners who have allowed Benitez to squander millions on duds , yet a few hundred fans try and protest against Murray and they are shouted down and abused by Murray's henchmen/supporters , why do we not deserve better.

When the RST came away with the "WE Deserve Better " campaign they were shouted down by many , even on here including Frankie who I do not accuse of having anything but Rangers best interests at heart , however how much of what the RST wanted has been addressed , nada , zero , zilch yet we are at a position that I have never believed would happen in my lifetime , our club is being hawked around like a cheap whore to the biggest bidder , a very very sad day and hopefully tomorrow it will be all a nightmare caused by the wine I am drinking

Walter Smith , as much as I criticise him for some football matters , is no one's fool and always conducts himself with the dignity and style associated with Rangers Manager , so for him to come out and basicaly call Bain and or Johnstone of lying is amazing , the end game is a foot for Murray's reign , but what the future holds god only knows

I bet I would agree with most of what you are saying but in the context of tonight, the anger we all feel and the beers I have drunk i'm not sure what argument you are for and I am against, or vice versa.

 

I'll try again in tomorrow when i'm not tired, sober and less pissed off.

 

Sorry.

No worries I would say sweet dreams , but more like horrible never ending nightmare

You hear a lot about it in football don't you? The backbone of the team, the spine of the team etc.

 

Well, that's what we're missing from top to bottom.

 

On the park, the keeper is maybe a 7-8/10, tops. Nothing special, but he's OK.

 

The central defence at this particular moment is not in good shape. A 40 year-old trying his best and a fairly talented chap who seems to miss a lot of games and clearly has eyes on 'something better'.

 

The player who leads and dominates the midfield and is our leader on the park is.... erm.... emmm. er...

 

Our centre forward who bangs in the goals on big and less-big nights and who is our hero is.. erm... uh.. sorry....

 

Off the park?

 

Our Chairman is in America, trying to sell the club. Our CEO is executing a specific business plan which aims to cut costs and scale down. Our Manager (allegedly) is pissed-off, concerned and without a contract.

 

Everything's wrong, top to bottom.

 

I really don't know where we go from here

We really are at the end game , the fat lady is about to start singing and even if we win the league we dont earn enough to stop making a loss , I cannot agree any more with your points above , no vision , no stratedgy , no future

Champions League games are glamour games.

 

Neds turn up and snap up these tickets whilst many real fans, in the recession, cant afford to as they spent their money on season tickets, replica jerseys and other spends.

 

I don't really understand the relevance of the rest of the post.

ok I accept that your choice of glamour games is the c/l , o problem with that , however what exactly is the point in even bothering if we cannot compete and even worse cannot even do the basics , why even attempt to compete . Its only a glamour tie in my mind if we are at a level that we have a good chance of achieving something and the only time that that has happened was under Advocatt IMHO sorry but the rest of the time we were just bailing the club out of trouble , something we have been doing all decade

We played well under PLG in the first game against Motherwell (I think) and that was it. Once in a while under Eck, I give you.

 

Gisa, regars your comment on the manager. Perhaps you're right. The point of this post was really to commend the real fans who paid their money, sat and watched that crap, cheered their team in the vague hope oif turning it around and wont fuck off once the glamour games are done.

sorry mate whilst I admire your dedication , you must see that we have a board of directors that dont give a flying fuck about you , and exactly what glamour games are you talking about , in over 30 years we have had maybe 3 good european runs , we have been to some really big teams just to make the numbers up whilst getting royally humped regularily by teams like tonights , whom I may add won their first ever european tie , get real !!!!!!