Big Spliff

I think these things can be over-analysed tbh. An OB from the backwater of Fir Park amongst a backdrop of one full stand and two other half-empty ones can be difficult to make exciting. Ali Douglas is ok IMO although I didn't really like her on RTV.

If you want shit production values, watch any locally produced comedy or drama from STV or BBC Scotland.

Did you see that MOTD?

First he draws blood with a deliberate stud in Van Percy's face. Then he scores a fantastic header to put City 3-1 up. Then he runs nearly 100 yards and knee - slides I'm front of the Arsenal fans nearly causing a riot!

Brilliant. Love it!

Tend to agree. The mhanks are absolutely raging, which says it all.

Same, 0-2.

 

Don't forget to do the BBC thing this week - I forgot the weekend before last so I still only have 6 points from the only week i took part.

Well at least I got the "Motherwell 0" bit right

Why sit on the fence and leave it to others? Decide what you want and take a stance yourself.

I am not sitting on the fence. I have a clear position on the return of the Billy Boys and I'll not be singing it in football stadia until the conditions are created whereby it won't jeopardise the club's standing.

I haven't been able to create these conditions myself as of yet but I live in hope.

In the meantime I understand that your aim is to create these conditions for everybody using the tactics you have already described. And, as I said, I wish you good luck and ask you not to fuck it up. Seems like a reasonable thing to say.

OK guys, I get the point. I think we are all agreed about the blatant disparity and the need to fashion a fightback. So it's a question of tactics i.e. how do we get where we need to be?

If more and more people are going to continue to ressurect the Billy Boys then I sincerely hope that you chaps have got your tactics right and it all gets cleared up to everyone's satisfaction. If so, I will be the first to appreciate and applaud your efforts.

Good luck - don't fuck it up.

Err, that's about the sum of it.

 

My point re. "fines and sanctions" is simple. We've been singing TBB for months now - where are the "fines and sanctions"?

 

 

 

I understand what you're saying, but I simply refer you to the point I made in a previous post. Forget this pseudo-directive nonsense, if the authorities want us to stop singing it quit fannying about and put it through the courts. If they were successful in banning the song by court of law it would never be heard again. But as I've said a hundred times before, banning TBB wouldn't stand up in a court of law. And don't the "Rangers-haters" know it.

Norris.

I'm not really convinced of the merits of your thinking here tbh. The authorities would rather this went away - they will avoid it for as long as possible as its a huge can of worms. But they will only be allowed to ignore it for so long - until those Rangers-haters with access and influence insist that they do something by pointing out that they are doing nothing. That's how they do it. That's how they get things done. That's how they did it before. It's easy for them; it's an open goal. I don't know when it will happen (and I can't guarantee that it will), I am only stating my opinion - and hopefully we never get there anyway.

On your other point, do you realise that a Rangers fan was charged with Racial (yes Racial) Breach of the Peace for shouting the few words of "TFS" and the phrase "Feni@n Bastards"? This was not just in a Sherrif Court, but in the Court of Appeal. I also believe others have been charged and convicted of Sectarian BOP for similar. So where exactly is your logic that banning TBB in its current form (as sung today as far as I could hear) would not stand up in a court of law?

I'd like to point out btw (in case there's any doubt) that the only reason I'm involved in this discussion is because I don't want to see Rangers FC get into any more bother and I don't see how re-introducing TBB when the context has not changed helps us avoid it. Quite the opposite in fact.

Dry yer eyes mate. Some people have been on their knees long enough. It sounded mighty good to me. Now it's been sung openly, we'll see if your theory about punishment is correct. I know what I think.

Cracking song that was. Prefer the first album myself though.

It's creeping back in, we both know it. And some day RFC will get clobbered for it (see above post).

Knew that was coming.

 

Perhaps it's the only way this'll get properly thrashed out. Because I don't think anyone's happy with the dubious nature of this UEFA "directive", "ban", whatever you want to call it.

 

And who's to assume "fines & sanctions" aren't a price worth paying to get our club back?

 

If we've "been warned of fines & sanctions", what happened to those at all the games TBB was belted out last season?

Right, so your 'plan' is to ignore the threats of fines, sanctions and directives and to promote the singing of the Billy Boys as a way of getting our club back?

We were set-up in 2006 and 2007 and we walked straight into it - now we're going down the same path.

The authorities would rather this just went away imo, they don't want to deal with it. But there'll come a time when the pressure builds on them that they'll feel they have to do something. We have been warned. The pressure will have re-started this afternoon - I wonder how many emails will be in the SPL's inbox on Monday morning from Rangers-haters pretending to be offended?

Spliff,

 

The problem with the Trust is that it isn't an effort at all. It only seems to operate as a private club for the sole benefit of its officers and other board members. I'm all ears if you know different but years of watching that debacle persuades me it's beyond all hope.

 

STS has considerable merit in its own right but cannot ever achieve anything so long as the club is unwilling to engage in serious discussion. If the club is prepared to change its attitude and view the support as a serious partner in the business of Rangers, then STS would be a valuable starting point.

 

What do I suggest? New ownership and a CEO who is confident enough of his own ability to enter willingly into constructive dialogue with supporters groups. IMO, no supporter initiative will ever succeed without those preconditions, regardless of how well thought out and prepared they might be. The way things stand at the moment, the supporter is very much the junior partner, without a seat at the table and dependant entirely on two things ...... being invited to speak and being listened to. That's what I think about it - what do you suggest?

Well I suppose it depends on what you are interested in.

If you believe in supporter ownership as opposed to the next-rich-man model - and if you have constructive & practical ideas, I would suggest you wipe the slate clean and re-engage with the Trust.

If you are not bothered about who owns the club but have constructive & practical ideas I would suggest you also get involved with the STS project or the Assembly.

It is possible for you to get involved in all 3 at the same time if you wanted to.

Loud and proud at Fir Park today, top effort Bears

Yeah great. Good job Rangers haven't been warned of fines & sanctions if our supporters return to singing the Billy Boys eh?

:fish:

The RST, that representer of almost no one at all, has been busy re-inventing itself. Like that other mythological fella the phoenix, a new website has risen from the ashes of theold and a reshuffled board of deflectors has been 'created'.

 

The new website still doesn't have a forum for its members, although there may be too few of those now to start a conversation let alone a forum.

 

As for the board of deflectors, out goes David Edgar, Fraser Martin, Graeme Hanna, who join the recently departed John Gilligan on the growing list of ex-deflectors. In come four more unelected souls to do the master's bidding and ensure the upcoming AGM in another suitably quiet affair.

 

You have to wonder why they bother any more. No one else does.

Seeing as you think Setting the Standard and the Trust are each a waste of effort, what do you suggest as alternatives MF?

I thought MF was a regular there? :fish:

PMSL very true !

I'm sure even MF would see the humour in that mate!

Kwality

Nice one BD.

To echo what was said earlier, the VB forum culture doesn't lend itself to people randomly posting pish. So we'll see what happens.

Just posted on RM by "BallochBear" (459 posts).

I might be able to add something to this. I was talking to a very good friend and employee of SDM on Wednesday in Aberdeen,(so close in fact he has got me tickets for me and my son for Seville away from SDM himself) Anyway he tells me the deal is almost done, it is a consortium led by 3 very wealthy guys, 1 from N. Ireland, 1 from West of Scotland and 1 other unnamed. He also told me that SDM rejected an offer last year which was more than he had offered as in his opinion they did not have the best interests of Rangers at heart.

Apparently they have almost finished due diligence and he expected an announcement before the end of October. He thinks that our new chairman is the choice of the group and that's why SDM has now resigned so the hand-over is smoother come the day.

First, let me say I wouldn't have a clue how to set-up, run or moderate a board so any comments I make are with all due respect.

Everyone has their own preferences but I have to say it looks and feels sub-standard, presumably for the reasons you have mentioned Frankie.

Also, the messageboard is like a chimp's tea party at the moment - hopefully it'll settle down when people get bored with trouble-making and ripping the piss out of it.

Obviously the guys have a bit of work to do still, so they need to be given a bit of time to iron things out. I'll keep an eye on it, post a bit and hope it improves.

Fair point, let's hope Naisy and KT genuinely put their woes behind them.

I've always struggled with this issue though, as how can the ordinary fan tell if a player could have been 'saved' with different treatment e.g. Durrant? The implication is that guys got bad or inappropriate treatment at Ibrox which is one hell of an accusation.

Thanks mate. Curious about what position you think such a group should take and what you think they could hope to achieve?

Is it worth trying to open a new dialogue with the SFA about TBB? It seems to me that the club could be in big trouble if the fans sing it during European matches. If the fans sing it in Seville for example, we could be in deep shit. The situation with singing it in Scotland during SPL & cup fixtures is far more sketchy though, since the SFA & SPL can only go so far in terms of being obviously biased against our club.

Do you mean the club should open up a dialogue? The statemt says they have informal communications already. What are you suggesting is done or said?

Same, 0-2.

Don't forget to do the BBC thing this week - I forgot the weekend before last so I still only have 6 points from the only week i took part.

Good decision not to lock this thread!

I'm sure frankie will be along directly again to shed any light, but given his previous posting about an idea he didn't seem too hopeful and there has been a bit of work put into this, so I'm guessing (all things considered) that he'll say it was nothing to do with him. Just a guess mind you - I've been wrong before, I think it was in 1992:D

Well lo and behold, out of the blue..... the new Assembly website has this to say in discussing the UEFA directive.

http://www.thebluenose.co.uk/assembly/uefa-directive/

Following the two UEFA Champions League fixtures against Villareal in February and March 2006, UEFA charged Rangers FC for being responsible for discriminatory chants sung by sections of their supporters at both matches, in particular, the ââ?¬Ë?Billy Boysââ?¬â?¢ and ââ?¬Ë?F*** the Popeââ?¬â?¢.

Rangers challenged the charges and the UEFA Control & Disciplinary Body cleared the Club in April 2006.

UEFA appealed that decision and the Disciplinary Inspector called for the closure of parts of Ibrox stadium, as well as a CHF 35,000 fine. UEFA rules also allowed the consideration of forcing Rangers to play matches behind closed doors, as well as a stadium ban.

The UEFA Appeals Body investigated the case and again Rangers FC challenged all charges. The club was fined CHF 30,000 and the closure or partial closure of Ibrox stadium, as originally sought, was prevented. However, the Club was severely warned about its responsibility for the future conduct of supporters and a directive was issued which stated (in conjunction with the Judgment from the Appeals Body):

ââ?¬Â¢ ââ?¬Ë?F*** the Popeââ?¬â?¢ is discriminatory under UEFA rules

ââ?¬Â¢ The ââ?¬Ë?Billy Boysââ?¬â?¢ is associated ââ?¬Å?with an attitude that is strongly sectarian and thus discriminatoryââ?¬Â.

� The directive also instructed to the Club to implement a range of measures to demonstrate its continuing efforts to eradicate sectarianism, including the banning of supporters indulging in such behaviour, communication of anti-sectarian messages etc.

ââ?¬Â¢ UEFA made it clear that the singing of the Billy Boys was prohibited. Songs and chants that referred to ââ?¬Ë?F*** the Popeââ?¬â?¢ and ââ?¬Ë?feni@nsââ?¬â?¢ were also condemned. The UEFA directive referred to the ââ?¬Ë?ethosââ?¬â?¢ of its decision and said that a club such as Rangers should be in a position to encourage behaviour that would not jeopardise the club at domestic and international fixtures.

Osasuna

Following the UEFA Cup tie against Osasuna in March 2007, Rangers were fined 20,000 Swiss francs for ââ?¬Å?discriminatory singingââ?¬Â by its supporters. Osasuna was fined far more heavily due to the lack of security arrangements on the night.

UEFA specifically mentioned ââ?¬Å?No Pope in Romeââ?¬Â, ââ?¬Å?F*** the Popeââ?¬Â and the Billy Boys as discriminatory singing and concluded the following:

ââ?¬Å?UEFA has to send a strong message that sectarianism is unacceptable within football, especially within UEFA competitions. If Rangers FC wishes to compete in UEFA competitions, they must combat this behaviour not only on the occasion of home matches but also on the occasion of away matches. These incidents are ascribable to Rangers FC in accordance with Article 6(1) RD and must be punished accordingly.ââ?¬Â

Since that time, the Club has continued with informal liaison with UEFA and the Scottish football authorities and it is clear that the Club and its supporters are unlikely to be given the benefit of the doubt in the future should there be further incidents.

I've been wondering for ages about the similarities between Hutton and Whittaker. They are definitely NOT the same, but there are similarities. I think I saw it tonight with them both being on the park.

Both great going forward about 8 out of 10 times. The other 2 they can be daft. Both good tacklers and get stuck in maybe 8/10 but they can also miss their tackles. But the main thing is - both seem to have acres of space to themselves both attacking and defending. So you take your chances.

Despite Miller's miss(es) and DW's mistake at the goal, I was proud of the Rangers players tonight. Naisy did well, very well for a young guy with very little big-game time. They did well. We were actually unlucky.

Is this the longest thread Gersnet has had? Can't remember a longer one since I joined in January anyway.

But I agree with MF as well that there is no conclusive proof.

 

Doesn't stop me coming to a conclusion nonetheless. Get off the fence! :fish:

haha

It's impossible to get completely off the fence without saying (as MF has done) that RANGERS banned TBB and not UEFA (OR) saying that UEFA banned TBB despite the conclusive paper-trail of evidence being missing.

My instinct is that UEFA probably included TBB in their directives to the club, but I also believe the club felt it was in a real corner and needed a clear way out so you never know.